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THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 06:51 pm
dyslexia wrote:
yeppers, I sure am, reading today about the minimum 7 hour wait to get fuel in their truck/car, the usual 2 hours per day of elect in their homes/businesses and trucked in water rationed by the litre. But hey, I only read the liberal press so how would I know?


Where?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 06:58 pm
well sure X I do know that bullets are flying, however I also remember Bremmer saying that he was going to make damn sure that Elect/Water/Water/Sewer and basic infrastructure were to be repaired poste haste. It doesn't seem to be happening. In my ignorance I see the US handing over to a new Iraqi government a bucket of worms that has the potential to damn any attempt to establish a legimate government. Without bread on the table, a job to go to, electricity to light the way and potable water there will continue to be the sound of revolution in the air and the first that serves those needs will be the ones that are seen as legimate to the people. And of course you are right, there are and continue to be serious attempts to fix the damages but I'm afraid that is not going to be enough. What say you?
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 07:22 pm
dyslexia wrote:
well sure X I do know that bullets are flying, however I also remember Bremmer saying that he was going to make damn sure that Elect/Water/Water/Sewer and basic infrastructure were to be repaired poste haste. It doesn't seem to be happening. In my ignorance I see the US handing over to a new Iraqi government a bucket of worms that has the potential to damn any attempt to establish a legimate government. Without bread on the table, a job to go to, electricity to light the way and potable water there will continue to be the sound of revolution in the air and the first that serves those needs will be the ones that are seen as legimate to the people. And of course you are right, there are and continue to be serious attempts to fix the damages but I'm afraid that is not going to be enough. What say you?


I think you're putting the cart before the horse, young man.

Some of those people have more services than they've ever had and we're just getting started. There are 1100 various construction projects unerway, something like 93 water/irrigation projects and the huge Baghdad sewer project. This stuff isn't going to happen in the short time we've been there, hell, it took 2 years for the state to build an exit ramp near where I live. Laughing
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 07:40 pm
well X, thanks for the "young man" but you know I was only thinking along the lines of
"real politik" and see the Iraqi's pretty much following whoever gets them the goods. (i'm pretty much that way myself) btw their still working on my exit ramp.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 08:01 pm
There's more ...... you have to leave the green zone to see it though.


Quote:
Baghdad Burning

... I'll meet you 'round the bend my friend, where hearts can heal and souls can mend...
Thursday, January 27, 2005

Water Anxiety...
I have to make this fast. We have about two hours of electricity- hopefully. The water came back yesterday evening. It's just a little drizzle but it's certainly better than nothing.

E. was the first to hear it. We were sitting in the living room and he suddenly jumped up, alert, "Do you hear that?" He asked. I strained my ears for either the sound of a plane or helicopter or gun shots. Nothing... except, wait... something... like a small stream of... water? Could it be? Was it back? We both ran into the bathroom where we had the faucets turned on for the last eight days in anticipation of water. Sure enough, there it was- a little stream of water that kept coming and going as if undecided. E. and I did a little victory dance in front of the sink with some celebratory hoots and clapping.

This was followed by a lot of work. We spent the rest of the evening filling anything that was fillable- pots, pans, cups, bottles and buckets. The formerly empty area under the staircase is now filled with big pots of water covered with trays and mismatching pot covers to keep out stray bugs and dust.

I almost didn't sleep last night. I kept worrying the water would be cut off again. I actually crept downstairs at 4 a.m. to see if it was still there and found E. standing in the bathroom doorway doing the same. My mother is calling the syndrome "water anxiety". We were hoping the flow would grow stronger at night but apparently the water pressure is really low. E. and I rose early this morning because we decided last night that should the water continue to flow, we'd attempt to fill up the big water tank on the roof. The water from this tank goes directly to the electric water heater but since we haven't been using that for a while now, we decided to close up the tank and use it as a sort of secondary storage. We cannot get caught off-guard again. Drinking water rose to almost 1,000 Dinars a liter this last week.

E. and I spent the day carrying up buckets of water. The water flow is so weak, it takes about 17 minutes to fill up a 10 liter plastic pail (I was timing it). We've carried up about 10 buckets until now. The water still doesn't reach the kitchen faucets so we've managed to move the dirty dishes to the bathroom and are washing them there.

Unfortunately, the electricity situation has deteriorated. We're getting about four hours for every twenty hours in our area- I'm not quite sure what's going on in the other areas. It feels like we're almost cut off from each other.

Baghdad has been unstable these last few days. We had several explosions this last week and although the number of explosions wasn't surprising, the force of a couple of them had us wincing. There's a real fear of the coming elections and what they might bring. I don't like the idea that they've selected schools as election sites. School is out right now, but the security threat is obvious- elections sites are most likely going to be bombed. Schools are having a difficult time as it is getting things fixed and replaced, they don't need the added trauma of an explosion. It's just a bad idea.

The curfew begins at six from now on and there's also a "driving curfew" in addition to the ordinary one. I don't have the exact hours but I know that during several hours of the day, it's ok to be on foot but not ok to be in a car. I don't have the slightest idea how they're going to enforce that one.

Ghazi Al Yawir, our alleged current president, was giving an interview on LBC yesterday. Apparently, he and Allawi aren't on the same election list anymore because they had a falling out as to who should head the list. Ghazi proposed the president should be the head of the list and Allawi claimed somebody Shia (Allawi himself) should head the list. Now, Allawi's group is 285 on the election ballot and Yawir's group is 288, I think.

My favorite question during the interview was when the reporter asked him what he thought of Chalabi possibly being arrested. Ghazi looked flustered and a little bit unsure (apparently he hasn't been watching CNN while abroad). He actually told her that the person who claimed Chalabi was wanted was probably speaking his own "personal" opinion and that it wasn't representative of the 'government'- never mind the person in question was the Minister of Defense. To be perfectly fair, he didn't mention which government he was referring to- I couldn't tell if he was talking about the US, the UK or the current group of Puppets. He claimed that for Chalabi to be arrested there needed to be 'proof' he had actually done something wrong... the Interpol wanting him really wasn't enough.

It's a bit discouraging to watch the current government so uncoordinated. It's like they don't even communicate with each other. It's also somewhat disturbing to know that they can't seem to decide who is a criminal and who isn't. Isn't there some "idiots guide to being a good Vichy government"?

They say communications are going to be cut off very soon. Telephones are often cut off and the mobile network is sometimes inaccessible for days at a time but we heard there also might not be web access. Students have a mid-year vacation right now but no one is going anywhere. Almost everyone is trapped at home because the security situation is quite bad and no one wants to be caught in an area where an explosion might occur. If the bomb doesn't kill you, the Iraqi security forces or the Americans might and if no one kills you then you risk getting a bag over the head and a trip to Abu Ghraib.

There's an almost palpable anxiety in the air these last couple of weeks and it's beginning to wear on people- fuel shortages, water shortages and a lack of electricity. It's like the first days of the war all over again.

Juan Cole has a "The Speech Bush SHOULD have Given" and it's quite good. In my opinion, during this year's inaugral Bush could have summed it up with the following: "Ha! I can't believe you people actually re-elected me! Unbelievable! Some people just loooove the abuse!!!"

- posted by river @ 4:29 PM
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 08:04 pm
brand x wrote : " Some of those people have more services than they've ever had ... ". ... news-clips from before the war showed iraq to be a fairly modern - by middle-eastern standards - country - ; of course, it was not a democratic one . before the war the city of baghdad - a city of 5 million people - did not look like the rubble heap it is now . i seem to recall that news-clips showed waterplants and sewage treatment facilities being destroyed during the war, so they must have been there before. as far as an 'exit ramp' is concerned, i think one can live without an exit ramp, but living without sufficient water and with unreliable electricity supplies is probably just a little more difficult. hbg
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 08:11 pm
hamburger wrote:
brand x wrote : " Some of those people have more services than they've ever had ... ". ... news-clips from before the war showed iraq to be a fairly modern - by middle-eastern standards - country - ; of course, it was not a democratic one . before the war the city of baghdad - a city of 5 million people - did not look like the rubble heap it is now . i seem to recall that news-clips showed waterplants and sewage treatment facilities being destroyed during the war, so they must have been there before. as far as an 'exit ramp' is concerned, i think one can live without an exit ramp, but living without sufficient water and with unreliable electricity supplies is probably just a little more difficult. hbg


You are nit-picking, I know we broke stuff, I know we're repairing stuff....I know some there had sufficient services before the war, I know some have it that didn't have now. Okay?

So much of the infrastructure there was neglected, it's not like there were perfect living conditions in Iraq.

Many of the important irrigation canals were choked off by weeds from neglect, a lot of that has been cleared up...one example.

It's not like nothing is being done and it will be better than ever in a few years.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 08:16 pm
dyslexia wrote:
yeppers, I sure am, reading today about the minimum 7 hour wait to get fuel in their truck/car, the usual 2 hours per day of elect in their homes/businesses and trucked in water rationed by the litre. But hey, I only read the liberal press so how would I know?


Where?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 08:31 pm
where? you ask. why all the liberal media of course, from the NYT to the Santa Fe New Mexican to moveon. Now you know McG as I am one of the usual suspects, I am incapable of reading fair and balanced news reports.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 08:38 pm
No, you said you were reading today about 7 hour waits for gas, 2 hours of electricity, trucked in water... I'd like to know where that was occuring.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 08:59 pm
the Territory of Iraq, more so in some places than in others I suppose. Baghdad in specific. You have different information? Please share it.
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 09:09 pm
Helloooo ..... you have to be deaf dumb and blind to be ignorant of the situation in Iraq .or exceptionally vunerable to propaganda


Quote:
AlterNet:


Why Iraq Is Still a Debacle

By Arianna Huffington, AlterNet. Posted February 2, 2005.

Quick, before the conventional wisdom hardens, it needs to be said: The Iraqi elections were not the second coming of the Constitutional Convention.

The media have made it sound like last Sunday was a combination of 1776, the fall of the Berlin Wall, Prague Spring, the Ukraine's Orange Revolution, Filipino "People Power," Tiananmen Square and Super Bowl Sunday - all rolled into one. It's impossible not to be moved by the stories coming out of Iraq: voters braving bombings and mortar blasts to cast ballots; multiethnic crowds singing and dancing outside polling places; election workers, undeterred by power outages, counting ballots by the glow of oil lamps; teary-eyed women in traditional Islamic garb proudly holding up their purple ink-stained fingers - literally giving the finger to butcher knife-wielding murderers.

It was a great moment. A Kodak moment. And unlike the other Kodak moments from this war - think Saddam's tumbling statue and Jessica Lynch's "rescue" - this one was not created by the image masters at Karl Rove Productions. But this Kodak moment, however moving, should not be allowed to erase all that came before it, leaving us unprepared for all that may come after it.

I'm sorry to kill the White House's buzz - and the press corps' contact high - but the triumphalist fog rolling across the land has all the makings of another "Mission Accomplished" moment.

Forgive me for trotting out Santayana's shopworn dictum that those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it but, for god's sake people, can't we even remember last week?

So amid all the talk of turning points, historic days and defining moments, let us steadfastly refuse to drink from the River Lethe that brought forgetfulness and oblivion to my ancient ancestors.

Let's not forget that for all the president's soaring rhetoric about spreading freedom and democracy, free elections were the administration's fallback position. More Plan D than guiding principle. We were initially going to install Ahmed Chalabi as our man in Baghdad, remember? Then that shifted to the abruptly foreshortened reign of "Bremer of Arabia." The White House only consented to holding open elections after Grand Ayatollah Sistani sent his followers into the streets to demand them - and even then Bush refused to allow the elections until after our presidential campaign was done, just in case more suicide bombers than voters turned up at Iraqi polling places.

And the election doesn't change that.

Let's not forget that despite the hoopla, this was a legitimate democratic election in name only. Actually, not even in name since most of the candidates on Sunday's ballot had less name recognition than your average candidate for dogcatcher. That's because they were too afraid to hold rallies or give speeches. Too terrorized to engage in debates. In fact, many were so anxious about being killed that they fought to keep their names from being made public. Some didn't even know their names had been placed on the ballot. On top of that, this vote was merely to elect a transitional national assembly that will then draft a new constitution that the people of Iraq will then vote to approve or reject, followed by yet another vote - this time to elect a permanent national assembly.

And the election doesn't change that.

Let's not forget that many Iraqi voters turned out to send a defiant message not just to the insurgents but to President Bush as well. Many of those purple fingers were raised in our direction. According to a poll taken by our own government, a jaw-dropping 92 percent of Iraqis view the U.S.-led forces in Iraq as "occupiers" while only 2 percent see them as "liberators." And the election doesn't change that.

Let's not forget that the war in Iraq has made America far less safe than it was before the invasion. According to an exhaustive report released last month by the CIA's National Intelligence Council, Iraq has become a breeding ground for the next generation of "professionalized" Islamic terrorists. Foreign terrorists are now honing their deadly skills against U.S. troops - skills they will eventually take with them to other countries, including ours. The report also warns that the war in Iraq has deepened solidarity among Muslims worldwide and increased anti-American feelings across the globe. Iraq has also drained tens of billions of dollars in resources that might otherwise have gone to really fighting the war on terror or increasing our preparedness for another terror attack here at home.

And the election doesn't change that.

Let's not forget the woeful lack of progress we've made in the reconstruction of Iraq. The people there still lack such basics as gas and kerosene. Indeed, Iraqis often wait in miles-long lines just to buy gas. The country is producing less electricity than before the war - roughly half of current demand. There are food shortages, the cost of staple items such as rice and bread is soaring, and the number of Iraqi children suffering from malnutrition has nearly doubled. According to UNICEF, nearly 1 in 10 Iraqi children is suffering the effects of chronic diarrhea caused by unsafe water - a situation responsible for 70 percent of children's deaths in Iraq.

And the election doesn't change that.

Let's not forget the blistering new report from the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction, which finds that the U.S. occupation government that ruled Iraq before last June's transfer of sovereignty has been unable to account for nearly $9 billion, overseeing a reconstruction process "open to fraud, kickbacks and misappropriation of funds."

And the election doesn't change that.

Let's not forget that we still don't have an exit strategy for Iraq. The closest the president has come is saying that we'll be able to bring our troops home when, as he put it on Sunday, "this rising democracy can eventually take responsibility for its own security" - "eventually" being the operative word. Although the administration claims over 120,000 Iraqi security forces have been trained, other estimates put the number closer to 14,000, with less than 5,000 of them ready for battle. And we keep losing those we've already trained: some 10,000 Iraqi National Guardsmen have quit or been dropped from the rolls in the last six months. Last summer, the White House predicted Iraqi forces would be fully trained by spring 2005; their latest estimate has moved that timetable to summer 2006.

And the election doesn't change that.

And let's never forget this administration's real goal in Iraq, as laid out by Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and their fellow neocon members of the Project for the New American Century back in 1998 when they urged President Clinton and members of Congress to take down Saddam "to protect our vital interests in the Gulf." These vital interests were cloaked in mushroom clouds, WMDs that turned into "weapons of mass destruction-related program activities," and a Saddam/al Qaeda link that turned into, well, nothing. Long before the Bushies landed on freedom and democracy as their 2005 buzzwords, they already had their eyes on the Iraqi prize: the second-largest oil reserves in the world, and a permanent home for U.S. bases in the Middle East.

This is still the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time. And the election, as heart-warming as it was, doesn't change any of that.

Find more Arianna at Ariannaonline.com.

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The Real "Accountability Moment"
For real accountability, George might want to have a heart-to-heart with Dante Zappala, a man who lost his brother in Iraq during a search for non-existent WMDs.
By Jim Hightower, AlterNet. February 9, 2005. Henry Darger's Internet
MediaCulture: He already had the internet in his brain, full of LiveJournal posts and chat sessions with himself.
By Annalee Newitz, AlterNet. February 9, 2005. Rebuilding Iraq: The Buck Stops Where?
By even the most charitable standard, the effort to rebuild Iraq has been an unmitigated disaster - it's a cornucopia of waste, fraud, cronyism, secret no-bid contracts and profiteering cloaked in patriotism.
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0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 09:12 pm
You have to be at least dumb to go to Arianna for info.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 09:15 pm
Sounds to me like Arianna has a case of the waaa's.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 09:23 pm
Can't point out the factual or logical errors? What to do? Oh, that's right, shoot the messenger.

You guys can do so much better than that, lol

Cycloptichorn
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 09:43 pm
I don't doubt that she has a lot of true info there, it's just of all the things I've read of hers and all the times I've heard her speak it's constant negativity. I don't like her...you know how some people just grind your nerves...that's what she does to me.

If she would be positive once in a while....that would help.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 09:51 pm
well yeah X i have to agree, balance is important(not that I use it) I personally have never read the lady. but anywho I was actually interested in your and Mcg's comments re other information and to how I was wrong. I am open minded to a degree (not that I'd let Barry Goldwater move in next door or marry my daughter) anyway I only posted my understanding of the current situation in Iraq re infrastructure, not that I have a lock on the real thing, but more as speculation. Seemed to me you (X) and I were having a good discussion that got kinda derailed somehow and I'd like to get back on that track.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 10:12 pm
Sorry, didn't mean to barge in. I only responded to what I thought was a legitimate request for documentation.
Mental note to self.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 01:51 am
I like Arianna. She talks a lot of sense, and very articulately too. And I, too, would like to hear from her detractors which facts she got wrong.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Feb, 2005 04:54 am
I think the problem was more in the facts she got right.
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