We tell children it's "make believe" when we know otherwise.
That's scary stuff, ican!
When do we start carpet bombing the entire Muslim world?
ican,
in what I quoted from you
here, You based all of you wrote on "Saddam tolerated AaI al Qaeda encamped in northern Iraq and thereby harbored them there."
Toleration is not harboring.
You make a logical leap when you say Saddam tolerated "AaI al Qaeda" therefor Saddam harbored them there.
For all that Saddam may have tolerated "AaI al Qaeda," "AaI al Qaeda" were situated in an area outside of his control.
Furthermore, the 9/11 commission perused questionable evidence in making its claims of "indications of tolerance," so even claims of tolerance are questionable. You take these suspect claims as facts. They are not.
Everything I wrote about what we've accomplished in Afghanistan was in reference to exercises in futility. You had stated that Clintons air strikes didn't destroy al Qaeda; neither did our invasion and occupation of Afghanistan.
About Britannica.com's claim that, "the Ba'thist regime attempted to direct affairs in the Kurdish Autonomous Region by various means, including military force," i.e. "the Iraqi military launched a successful attack against the Kurdish city of Arbil in 1996," this attack was at the invitation of the KDP. Therefor, the Ba'thist regime did not act unilaterally. Britannica.com's entry is simplistic and misleading, and does not explain the details of the situation in Arbil in 1996. The Iraqi Kurdistan Dispatch and the KDP itself provide the more complex details about the event of 1996 in Abril.
German's Claim of Kidnapping Brings Investigation of U.S. Link
By DON VAN NATTA Jr. and SOUAD MEKHENNET
Published: January 9, 2005
MUNICH - On the afternoon of Dec. 31, 2003, Khaled el-Masri was traveling on a tourist bus headed for the Macedonian capital, Skopje, where he was hoping to escape the "holiday pressures" of home life during a weeklong vacation.
When the bus reached the Serbia-Macedonia border, Mr. Masri said, he was asked the usual questions: Where are you going? How long will you be staying? Mr. Masri, a German citizen, did not think much of it, until he realized that the border guards had confiscated his passport.
The bus moved on, but an increasingly panicked Mr. Masri was ordered to stay behind. A few hours later, Mr. Masri, a 41-year-old unemployed car salesman, said he was taken to a small, windowless room and was accused of being a terrorist by three men who were dressed in civilian clothes but carrying pistols.
"They asked a lot of questions - if I have relations with Al Qaeda, Al Haramain, the Islamic Brotherhood," recalled Mr. Masri, who was born in Lebanon. "I kept saying no, but they did not believe me."
It was the first day of what Mr. Masri said would become five months in captivity. In an interview, he said that after being kidnapped by the Macedonian authorities at the border, he was turned over to officials he believed were from the United States. He said they flew him to a prison in Afghanistan, where he said he was shackled, beaten repeatedly, photographed nude, injected with drugs and questioned by interrogators about what they insisted were his ties to Al Qaeda.
He was released without ever being charged with a crime. The German police and prosecutors have been investigating Mr. Masri's allegations since he reported the matter to them last June, two weeks after his return to Germany.
Martin Hofmann, a senior national prosecutor in Munich who handles terrorism cases and is in charge of the Masri investigation, and another official, a senior organized crime investigator in southern Germany, say they believe Mr. Masri's story. They said investigators interviewed him for 17 hours over two days, that his story was very detailed and that he recounted it consistently. In addition, the officials said they had verified specific elements of the case, including that Mr. Masri was forced off the bus at the border.
Still, much of Mr. Masri's story has not been corroborated. His assertion that he was held by Americans in Afghanistan, for example, is solely based on what he said he observed or was told after he was taken off the bus in Macedonia.
Mr. Masri said he was confounded by his captors' insistence that he was a Qaeda operative. He attends a mosque in Ulm, Germany, that has been closely watched by the authorities because several suspected terrorists have worshiped there. But those authorities say Mr. Masri has never been a suspect.
Mr. Masri's lawyer, Manfred R. Gnjidic, said he suspected that his client was swept into the C.I.A.'s policy of "renditions" - handing custody of a prisoner from United States control to another country for the purposes of interrogation - because he has the same name, with a slightly different spelling, as a man wanted in the Sept. 11 attacks. The policy has come under increasing criticism as other cases have come to light recently.
Although the German authorities say they have no specific suspects in the Masri case, they say they are looking into the possible role of the United States and other countries.
"It is an unusual case," Mr. Hofmann said. "The political dimension is huge. Under German law, we can charge a person with kidnapping, but not a country. Countries cannot kidnap people."
Officials at Germany's national intelligence agency said they are also investigating. They said they asked the F.B.I. for assistance last fall but have received little help.
A senior administration official said the Bush administration had been aware of these allegations for some time, but he referred questions to the F.B.I. and the C.I.A.
In a series of interviews, neither the C.I.A. nor the F.B.I. would deny or confirm Mr. Masri's allegations. A C.I.A. spokeswoman said the agency would not comment at all. Senior F.B.I. officials in Washington acknowledged that they received a request for help from the Germans last October, and said they were assisting in the investigation. The officials disputed that they had not worked aggressively on the case.
Palestinians vote in key election
Mahmoud Abbas, seen as a moderate, is the frontrunner Palestinians are going to the polls to elect a successor to their late leader, Yasser Arafat.
About 1.8 million Palestinians are eligible to vote in their first presidential elections since 1996.
Polls opened at 0700 local time (0500 GMT) on Sunday morning to allow 12 hours of voting.
Opinion polls suggest ex-Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas will easily beat his nearest rival, Mustafa Barghouti. Final results are not expected until Monday.
Many voters will have to make their way past Israeli checkpoints and road blocks to reach polling stations in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Israel says it has done what it can to ease restrictions for the vote, including removing a number of temporary roadblocks.
But some Palestinians complain it is not enough, and such travel restrictions could hamper the vote.
It seems to me that this is an exercise in pretend democracy
Ron Conover, Wisconsin, USA
Palestinian elections: Your say
Official campaigning ended with opinions polls giving ruling Fatah party candidate Mr Abbas a clear lead over the pro-democracy activist Mr Barghouti, who is standing as an independent, and five other candidates.
On the eve of voting, acting President Rawhi Fattuh announced that Palestinian parliamentary elections would be held on 17 July.
Roadblocks
Some Palestinians say they are excited at the chance to pick their leader in Sunday's vote, reports the BBC's James Reynolds in Jerusalem.
But he adds that others believe the ballot and its results will make little difference to their lives.
Palestinians say who they will be voting for in the elections
As polls open the question now is how easy will it be for them to vote, our correspondent says.
The Israeli army maintains checkpoints on many roads in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, vetting papers and controlling the movement of people and cars.
Palestinian officials on the ground said on Saturday that military checkpoints and road blocks were still in place.
"The Palestinians and their cars are being checked at the roadblocks. This is not what we call easing of restrictions," Palestinian Cabinet Minister Saeb Erekat told Reuters news agency.
International monitors
Israel promised that it would not carry-out military operations for three days during the election period, but says it did not promise to remove checkpoints.
However, Israeli security sources say many temporary checkpoints and barricades have been removed, and procedures at larger permanent checkpoints outside cities and at major road junctions significantly eased.
ELECTION FACTS
Candidates: Mahmoud Abbas (Fatah), Mustafa Barghouti, Tayser Khalid (DFLP), Bassam al-Salhi (leftist), Sayyed Baraka Abdul Karim Shubayr, and Abdul Halim Ashqar
Hamas is boycotting vote
Voting at 3,000 polling stations between 0500 and 1700 GMT
1.8 million eligible voters
More than 500 international observers and thousands of local monitors
Official result on 10 January
"Major checkpoints are still in place, but there was never an intent to remove them. It's obvious they must stay in place for security reasons. Terrorist threats still have to be dealt with," said an army spokesman.
Observer teams headed by former US President Jimmy Carter and former French Prime Minister Michel Rocard are touring checkpoints to see whether restrictions are being eased.
But Mr Rocard, who heads the European Union election's monitoring mission, told the BBC he did not expect any major problems.
Mr Abbas has said he will ask current Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei to form a new government if he wins the election.
He has also said there is no option but to work with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and "do our best to convince him of Palestinian rights".
Both Mr Abbas and Mr Barghouti are regarded as relative moderates, and both have used the campaign to criticise aspects of the four-year-old Palestinian uprising, or intifada.
Happy Sunday morning, all
C.I. - was it you asking about requirements for those outside Iraq voting in the upcoming elections?
One of my Iraqi friends has posted on his website a link that should provide most helpful for those interested in these things.
http://www.irc-co.com/
Registration for the Iraq Election
Required Documents for voters reiteration
For those interested in participate in the National Assembly election please note that you will have to register to be on the electorate list before the day of election (17 -23 Jan. 2005) in order to vote on the day of the election.
In order to register one must be able to prove the eligibility to participate by providing specific supporting and original documents on registration. At least one of the provided documents must have a photograph.
If you are not already on the electorate list you will not be able to register to vote on the same day of the election.
If you have registered you will be given a registration receipt. You can use this receipt to demand your vote if you name was not found on the list on the day of election.
The following are the documents which can be used to prove eligibility:
A. Official Iraq certificates :
1. Civil Status identity card.
2. Retirees Identity Card
3. Iraqi Nationality Certificate
4. Iraq Nationality Book of 1957
5. Iraq Passport
6. Marriage certificate issued from an Iraqi Court
7. Educational Qualification Certificate from an official Iraqi Higher Education Institute
8. Property ownership registration certificate of a property registered in Iraq
9. Military service book
B. Foreign Certificates :
1. United Nations Refugees Identity Certificate
2. Prisoners of war or deportees identity certificate issued by International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC).
3. Foreign passports, foreign nationality certificate or any other governmental certificate that can prove the right to become Iraqi.
4. Driving license of the country of residence.
5. Residency Certificate.
It has lots of other info - breakdown of population by state in Iraq, etc.
Joe Nation wrote:It's as if no one is reading those fatwas that ican keeps posting.
I know I'm not. I've never scrolled anyone faster and more often since Italgato got banned.
Show of hands: who is still reading ican (besides ican)?
PD
What makes you think Ican reads his own ca ca?
Any predictions (short or long term) on the outcome of Iraqi elections? They most definitely should be held.
JM
Shiites win majority.
Sunis get pissed and attack Shiites.
Kurds side with Shiites and attack Sunis.
Iran flips coin then dives in.
Pressure builds as U.S. troops lose war of atrition and support for Boosh exist only in his cabinet.
That should bring us up to November of 06 .... The ball gets cloudy after that.
January 9, 2005
The Department of Defense has identified the following US service members who have died recently while serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Sergeant Jeremy R. Wright, 31, of Shelbyville, Ind., on Jan. 3 in Asadabad, Afghanistan, when his military vehicle hit an improvised explosive device. Second Battalion, First Special Forces Group, Fort Lewis, Wash.
Sergeant Thomas E. Houser, 22, of Council Bluffs, Iowa, on Jan. 3 in Anbar Province, Iraq, as result of enemy action. Second Force Reconnaissance Company, Second Marine Expeditionary Force, Camp Lejeune, N.C.
Sergeant First Class Pedro A. Munoz, 47, of Aquada, Puerto Rico, on Jan. 2 in Shindand, Afghanistan, of injuries sustained Jan. 1 when his patrol encountered enemy fire. First Battalion, Seventh Special Forces Group, Fort Bragg, N.C.
Lance Corporal Brian P. Parrello, 19, of West Milford, N.J., on Jan. 1 in Anbar Province, Iraq. Small Craft Company, Headquarters Battalion, Second Marine Division, Second Marine Expeditionary Force, Camp Lejeune, N.C.
Specialist Jeff LeBrun, 21, of Buffalo, on Jan. 1 in Baghdad, when his military vehicle was struck by an improvised explosive device. Army's Second Battalion, 15th Field Artillery Regiment, 10th Mountain Division (Light Infantry), Fort Drum, N.Y.
Lance Corporal Jason E. Smith, 21, of Phoenix, Dec. 31, in Anbar Province, Iraq, as result of hostile action. First Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalion, First Marine Division, First Marine Expeditionary Force, Camp Pendleton, Calif.
Sergeant Damien T. Ficek, 26, of Pullman, Wash., on Dec. 30 in Baghdad, when his patrol was attacked by enemy forces using small-arms fire. Army National Guard's First Battalion, 161st Infantry Regiment, Spokane, Wash.
Specialist Craig L. Nelson, 21, of Bossier City, La., on Dec. 29 in Bethesda, Md., of injuries sustained Dec. 16 in Baghdad, when an improvised explosive device detonated near his military vehicle. Army National Guard's First Battalion, 156th Armor Regiment, Shreveport, La.
Private First Class Oscar Sanchez, 19, of Modesto, Calif., on Dec. 29 in Mosul, Iraq, when a vehicle-borne improvised explosive device struck his observation post. First Battalion, 24th Infantry Regiment, First Brigade, 25th Infantry Division Stryker Brigade Combat Team, Fort Lewis, Wash.
Staff Sergeant Nathaniel J. Nyren, 31, of Reston, Va., on Dec. 28 in Baghdad, when a civilian vehicle struck his military vehicle. Army's First Battalion, Eighth Cavalry Regiment, First Cavalry Division in Fort Hood, Texas.
Navy Seaman Pablito Pena Briones Jr., 22, of Anaheim, Calif., on Dec. 28 in Fallujah, Iraq, of a nonhostile gunshot wound. First Marine Division Detachment, Naval Medical Center, San Diego.
Staff Sergeant Jason A. Lehto, 31, of Mount Clemens, Mich., on Dec. 28 in Anbar Province, Iraq, in a nonhostile event. Marine Reserve's Marine Wing Support Group 47, Fourth Marine Aircraft Wing, Mount Clemens, Mich.
Army Specialist Jose A. Rivera-Serrano, 26, of Mayaquez, Puerto Rico, on Dec. 27 in Baghdad, from wounds sustained when an improvised explosive device hit his vehicle. Second Battalion, Fifth Cavalry Regiment, Fort Hood, Texas.
Staff Sergeant Todd D. Olson, 36, of Loyal, Wis., on Dec. 27 in the 67th Combat Support Hospital in Tikrit, Iraq, from wounds sustained in Samarra, Iraq, on Dec. 26, when an improvised explosive device detonated. National Guard's First Battalion, 128th Infantry Regiment, Neillsville, Wis.
Lance Corporal Eric Hillenburg, 21, of Marion, Ind., on Dec. 23 in Anbar Province, Iraq, as result of enemy action. Third Battalion, Fifth Marine Regiment, First Marine Division, First Marine Expeditionary Force, Marine Corps Base Camp, Camp Pendleton, Calif.
Lance Corporal James R. Phillips, 21, of Hillsboro, Fla., on Dec. 23 in Anbar Province, Iraq, as result of enemy action. Third Battalion, Fifth Marine Regiment, First Marine Division, First Marine Expeditionary Force, Marine Corps Base Camp, Camp Pendleton, Calif.
Corporal Raleigh C. Smith, 21, of Lincoln, Mont., on Dec. 23 in Anbar Province, Iraq, as result of enemy action. Third Battalion, First Marine Regiment, First Marine Division, First Marine Expeditionary Force, Marine Corps Base Camp, Camp Pendleton, Calif.
First Lieutenant Christopher W. Barnett, 32, of Baton Rouge, La., on Dec. 23 in Baghdad, when an improvised explosive device detonated near his military vehicle. Army National Guard's First Battalion, 156th Armor Regiment, 256th Brigade Combat Team, Shreveport, La.
Chief Joel Egan Baldwin, 37, of Arlington, Va., on Dec. 21, in Mosul, Iraq, when a dining facility was attacked. Navy Mobile Construction Battalion 77, Gulfport, Miss.
© Copyright 2005 Globe Newspaper Company.
Joe, Most on the casualty list you provided are very young men in their early twenties who has not even had the chance to experience what life is all about. What a crying shame. Bush and his minions that sent these boys to get killed will never understand the loss of their own; they just know how to say the right words.
US troops 'kill police' in Iraq
The US is trying to win hearts and minds among the Sunnis
US soldiers mistakenly shot dead two Iraqi policemen and two civilians after an attack on their convoy, the Iraqi interior ministry reports.
The incident happened south of Baghdad on Saturday just hours after a US bombing error left at least five dead near the northern city of Mosul.
cicerone imposter wrote:US troops 'kill police' in Iraq
The US is trying to win hearts and minds among the Sunnis
US soldiers mistakenly shot dead two Iraqi policemen and two civilians after an attack on their convoy, the Iraqi interior ministry reports.
The incident happened south of Baghdad on Saturday just hours after a US bombing error left at least five dead near the northern city of Mosul.
CI I just saw that myself and was going to post the link. I guess ican will think we will have more celebrate.
What gets me is that more and more awful stuff just keeps piling on so of course people will be focusing on the negative when there is so much of it. Yet we are accused of wanting the US to loose or siding with the enemy or belonging to the card carrying Blame America First club as though this is all one big game while people are dying for a lie.
Has anyone figured out how many people are actually in the provinces that get to vote verses the ones that don't get to vote? Aren't the ones that don't get to vote have the most people in them?
This is such a joke that is not even funny.
Many of those who want free elections in Iraq have expressed a fear that this will result in a shi'a majority. Democratically speaking, this result is most likely but entirely legitimate. We in the US speak of our desire for Iraqis to enjoy the results of a legitimate plebiscite but are constantly nagged by the possibility of the January vote turning out to be a one time vote supporting a theocratic regime reminiscent of Iran's present administration. Indeed, there is a possibility that Iran's influence on a future Iraqi administration will become a US nightmare.
This is where the construction of the new Iraqi Constitution becomes extremely important. Desirable in the fair governing of human kind is the complete separation of church and state, but is this a practical and realistic expectation in this area? Even in the United States we have never enjoyed such an ideal and complete separation of those two conceptual human constructs of religion and government. In fact we are witnessing a resurgence of the concept of the U.S. as "one Nation under God..." (Newt Gingrich's new book,Winning the Future, is an extension of his earlier concept of his "Contract with America" and specifies a closing of ranks and a reestablishing of Christianity as at least a moral base that all Americans should follow as one of five basic pillars of American culture and good governance). Witness, also the failure of efforts to remove God from the Pledge of Allegiance and the soon to be rejected effort to ban the bible as a prop in the Presidential inaugural ceremony. This does not even take into account the strong support of President Bush by those supporters who backed him simply because of his repeated alignment with those "of Faith". John Kerry's repeated association with secularity seems to have denied him this entire segment of the electorate. The worm is turning.
Given the U.S.'s own religious bent, how can we demand more secular leanings from those self governing segments of the Middle East? Add to this the historical propensity of Muslim leaders to claim divine credentials from which flows their very legitimacy, and even dreams of American envisioned semi-separation of these two areas of human endeavor seem just that, dreams.
So, what seems important in establishing an Iraqi government is the constitutional establishment of the Rights of Minorities, or Bill Of Rights, and a system of checks and balances to insure not only their codification but institutional survival. Set up correctly and based on the rule of law this system would ensure a fair government for all Iraqis. If necessary a very basic Sharia or Muslim law might be tolerated but essentially only as a sop to those who feel it necessary for them to be able to bring their groups into the government but Muslim Law should always defer to and not infringe upon those basic individual rights so defined in the constitution.
Lastly, there has been talk in the Bush administration, and elsewhere, to ensure the placement of at least a few Sunnis in the new government because of the perceived failure, for whatever reasons, or inability of this group to elect their own members and to offset the forecasted Shi'a majority. This action would send the same message to the insurgents that a postponement of elections would (you win!). This also runs counter to the argument in favor of democratic elections. In addition, this type of gerrymandering robs both the Sunnis and Shi'a of an important learning experience that, if not learned early, threatens the longevity of the very democratic process the U.S. is trying to establish in Iraq. The Sunnis must learn that they will no longer always "have it their way". The Shi'a, given a correctly constructed constitution as previously mentioned, must respect the basic rights of others and also realize that they will not enjoy a turnabout situation whereby they make all the decisions. If the constitution is properly constructed and the rule of law established then both Shi'a and Sunni must learn the art of compromise and value of coalition building. They would not have to look far for good examples. Ariel Sharon in his pursuit of disengagement in Gaza comes to mind. Perhaps Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) will provide a fine Palestinian example for all Arabs, but only time will tell. That is not totally up to Abu Mazen, it is up to the Palestinian electorate and that's just the point. But the election is the easy part. Learning to live with its results by honoring one's commitment to democracy and respecting the rights of all individuals is much more difficult. The democratic process does not guarantee one gets his way, it only guarantees one gets his say. The end of the process demands compromise with and respect for others. However, it is high time those in the Middle East grown up and become self governing adults.
JM
US frees more prisoners in Iraq
Remaining detainees are said to include scores of non-Iraqis
The US military has freed about 230 prisoners it was holding at Iraq's notorious Abu Ghraib jail in the second round of releases this year.
It said that those freed either no longer posed a security threat or would be vouched for by members of their own communities.
With some 9,000 prisoners freed last year and 260 released on 1 January, about 7,400 now remain in US custody.
Reports of prisoner abuse by US guards at Abu Ghraib caused outrage last year.
Most of the remaining prisoners are being held at Umm Qasr in the south, with about 2,400 held at Abu Ghraib, near Baghdad.
James Morrison - one of my Iraqi friends had this to say on the compatibility of Islam and democracy:
"We don't need to democratize Islam, as it wasn't possible with any other religion. We simply need to separate the mosque from the state, and that could be done violently or peacefully depending on the place and the circumstances. So the right question in my mind is, can we separate the mosque from the state? I for one believe it's very possible, especially in Iraq."
There was more, but in the interest of space, I though you might find that last paragraph interesting. On the subject of the Sunnis and the constitution he had this to say:
"I've heard it from many of my Sunni friends that they are concerned about the possibility that the constitution might be written by She'at and Kurds mainly, and to be more accurate they are concerned with the She'at part more. Most of them said they will vote for Pachachi and others are still considering but generally they said they will vote for a secular party. My belief is that the percentage of Sunnis who will vote will be considerably lower than that of any other group, but it will be still high enough to contradict the analysis of most experts, and we only have to wait for few days to see."
He lives and works in Baghdad.
Oh, and I heard earlier on the news the Sunnis are looking for a reason to cave (on their promise to boycott). I predicted they would.
