0
   

THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2005 07:04 pm
JW, Interesting opinion coming from one person. I think the environment makes it almost impossible to get accurate information from Iraq whether they are citizens or reporters. Most of us hope for the best, but what I see is more violence and killing both Iraqis and our military for a cause (the elections) that may turn out to be futile and worthless. We just don't know. There are many countries that have elections, but we're not sure if they are really legit. It may take a few months before we know for sure.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2005 07:07 pm
Hey, c.i. Did you see my post on the requirements for the elections? It's several pages back by now, I guess.

I know what you're saying. I'm more optimistic than you (as is my Iraqi friend), but as you say, we shall see Smile
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2005 07:08 pm
JW,

Does it really matter? It's not as if the elections are going to solve anything (except perhaps for pulling our own fat out of the fire).
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2005 07:11 pm
Cyclo............I don't think you really believe that. Yes, it matters.

<you know it does>
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2005 07:37 pm
JW, Yes, I saw your post on the qualifications needed to vote. Qualification is only one side of the equation. People must have the freedom to vote without fearing for their life. The initial parliament will have the responsibility to write it's laws, but without security, it won't have much meaning.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2005 07:48 pm
O Nov 4th 2004, I made this post, I see no reason to retract it now:

Quote:
I'm betting that Bush will declare We have won the war and bug out of direct conflict in Iraq within 18 months leaving highly secure contract military operations to secure oil production and distribution. This will leave Iraqi's to continue fighting among themselves and contribute to the development of increased world-wide terrorism.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2005 08:00 pm
c.i. ... great website, huh? It also has a breakdown of all the participating parties. And a FAQ.

I'm aware of your concerns. Let's just try to keep the faith.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2005 08:09 pm
Quote:
Posted on Fri, Jan. 07, 2005

Campaigning in Iraq has worsened ethnic, religious tensions

BY NANCY A. YOUSSEF

Knight Ridder Newspapers

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Asking someone whether he or she is Shiite, Sunni or Kurd was once taboo in Iraq. Iraq was one country, bound through wars and dictatorship, not a nation of divided sects or ethnic groups, came the standard answer.

But that national identity has been breaking down in the parliamentary election campaign. In the absence of political ideologies or competing policy agendas, the nation's newly formed political parties are increasingly depending on religious and ethnic labels to help voters distinguish among them.

While the appeals help build party support for the Jan. 30 elections, they contribute to a growing sectarianism.

Shiite Muslim Arabs account for roughly 60 percent of Iraq's population. Sunni Muslim Arabs are about 20 percent, and the ethnic Kurds, who are also Sunni Muslim, are another 20 percent, mainly in the north of the country.

On the campaign posters plastered on thick concrete blast walls around Baghdad, only one name and face appears regularly: Grand Ayatollah Ali al Husseini al Sistani, the leading Shiite cleric, who isn't a candidate. Sistani appears on campaign signs for the major Shiite party, the United Iraqi Alliance. Some signs have Sistani and a verse from the Quran. Others have him above a campaign slogan.

"With your voice, we will build Iraq," reads one. "No to dictatorship, Yes to the coalition," reads another.

None of the signs spell out what the party would do if it won.

Political parties are widely distrusted in Iraq. During Saddam Hussein's reign, only one party could operate freely, the Baath Party. And party politics usually meant courting favors for party members.

Indeed, the word "party" has such negative connotations that of the 111 political parties that will appear on the ballot, only 19 use the word "party" in their names. The rest call themselves coalitions, gatherings, assemblies and the like.

Political parties "are going to the religious leaders to gain the people's respect," said Ahmed al Ruwaee, an economics professor at al Mustansiriya University in Baghdad who's followed the election. "It's because the parties are not confident in their base."

In the process, it creates sectarianism, al Ruwaee said. Instead of campaigning on their plans for the country, they're leaning on the citizens' loyalty to their religious leaders.

Saad Jawad Quindeel, a spokesman for the Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution in Iraq - which is part of the United Iraqi Alliance - defended evoking Sistani's name in the campaign. Quindeel said the Shiite campaign included "recognizing the Islamic identity of the Iraqi people."

He denied that a Shiite slate meant sectarianism. "We are not calling for a Sistani state. No doubt if we did that, we would divide the state," he said.

Earlier this week, interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi, who's running on a secular Shiite slate, said he believed that the election would unify the country.

The Shiites are expected to make big gains and win control of the government. The minority Sunnis have run the government for most of the past century, and the expected change in power may be contributing to sectarian discord.

At Baghdad University, students hesitated to suggest a divide between sects. A group of women sitting at a cafeteria in the student union at first said Iraq remained a united country. But talking about their views on the election widened the gap.

Wasab Mehdi, 21, a Shiite political-science student, said she didn't know much about the candidates, but planned to vote, calling it a "duty to my country."

She insisted there's no divide between sects: "We are all Muslims."

Next to her sat her friend Nadia Khatim, 21, a Sunni, who said she wouldn't vote because her neighborhood was littered with messages threatening to behead anyone who voted. And Khatim said she was worried about what Iraq would look like under Shiite leadership. "I have fears that my country will change," she said.

Mehdi chimed in: "There is no need to worry. It doesn't matter, Sunni or Shiite, as long as an honorable person is in power."

"For you, it doesn't matter," her friend responded. For Khatim herself, as a Sunni, "it will."

Poor security inhibits learning much about the parties and candidates beyond simple labels. The Independent Electoral Commission, which is in charge of producing the elections, has refused to release the names of the 7,000-plus candidates who are running, saying it's too dangerous for them. It has promised to announce the names eventually.

In the meantime, it's been up to the parties to let people know who's running on their slates. Many release only the top names on the ticket. The parties also say the bad security precludes them from announcing their candidates, and from going out and meeting voters.

The lack of any understanding about the parties perpetuates the distrust between citizens and parties, said Nasser Chadiriji, the head of the National Democratic Party.

"If I were to vote for a list, when would I find out who is on the list?" asked Ahmed Abu Hiba, a Sunni from Fallujah. "I would participate, but I don't know the people."

Chadiriji said two of his party's 48 candidates resigned Friday after receiving death threats; the remaining are afraid to leave their homes.

He thinks every participant should have eight guards around him before announcing his candidacy. But he said his party couldn't afford such protection for all its candidates.

"Most of the parties, especially those that don't have militias, can't campaign," Chadiriji said.

Some of the sectarian split is fueled by the growing difference in experiences for Sunnis and Shiites leading up to the election, residents said. Shiite parties have announced more of the candidates on their lists and have encouraged more voter participation than their Sunni counterparts.

The Sunnis say the violent insurgency has spread into their major strongholds, and that the American attack on Fallujah made it impossible for them to campaign. The major Sunni party, the Iraqi Islamic Party, withdrew from the election last month, citing security problems among its voters.

"How can elections be held where whole towns have been wiped out?" asked Ibrahim Abdullah, 25, a Sunni student at Baghdad University who lives in Fallujah and who thinks the United States wants the Sunnis to lose. "The winner will be carried in by the Americans."

Most people don't understand how the elections will work, where they'll vote or even what they're voting for, al Ruwaee said, forcing them to turn to their religious leaders for guidance.

"To a lot of people, the process is unclear. A lot of people think we are voting for a president, not a national assembly," he said. "I had to do my own research to understand the process myself."

Some remain optimistic that nationalism, which grew during Iraq's more prosperous economic years and continued through Saddam's leadership, will keep sectarianism from becoming a permanent part of Iraqi politics.

Sunnis and Shiites "are like the Tigris and the Euphrates; no matter how separated we are, in the end, we meet," said Zahnab Ahmed, 22, a Shiite from Baghdad's Sadr City neighborhood.

---

© 2005, Knight Ridder/Tribune Information Services.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2005 08:12 pm
[my comments are in boldface blue]
InfraBlue wrote:
ican, in what I quoted from you, ... You based all of you wrote on "Saddam tolerated AaI al Qaeda encamped in northern Iraq and thereby harbored them there."[That is correct]

Toleration is not harboring.[I disagree. I'll explain why. First, a definition of the verb tolerate, and a definition of the verb harbor]

www.m-w.com
Quote:
Main Entry: tol·er·ate
Pronunciation: 'tä-l&-"rAt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -at·ed; -at·ing
Etymology: Latin toleratus, pp. of tolerare to endure, put up with; akin to Old English tholian to bear, Latin tollere to lift up, latus carried (suppletive past participle of ferre), Greek tlEnai to bear
1 : to exhibit physiological tolerance for (as a drug)
2 a : to suffer to be or to be done without prohibition, hindrance, or contradiction b : to put up with
synonym see BEAR
- tol·er·a·tive /-"rA-tiv/ adjective
- tol·er·a·tor /-"rA-t&r/ noun

Main Entry: 2harbor
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): har·bored; har·bor·ing /-b(&-)ri[ng]/
transitive senses
1 a : to give shelter or refuge to b : to be the home or habitat of <the ledges still harbor rattlesnakes>; broadly : CONTAIN 2
2 : to hold especially persistently in the mind : CHERISH <harbored a grudge>
intransitive senses
1 : to take shelter in or as if in a harbor
2 : LIVE
- har·bor·er /-b&r-&r/ noun


[If one tolerates a known murderer living in one's house, without seeking help to remove that known murderer, then one is "suffer[ing ]" that known murderer to live in one's house "without prohibition, hindrance, or contradiction;" one is "put[ ing ] up with" that known murderer living in one's house ." If one is putting up with a known murderer living in one's house, then one is "giv[ ing ] shelter or refuge to" that known murderer in one's "home or habitat." If one is "giv[ ing ] shelter or refuge to" that known murderer in one's "home or habitat, then one is harboring that known murderer.

I claim that it is agreed by all (including al Qaeda itself -- see fatwas 1996, 1998, and 2004) that al Qaeda are known murderers]


You make a logical leap when you say Saddam tolerated "AaI al Qaeda" therefor Saddam harbored them there.[as you now should be able to understand, it was not a "logical leap"; it was a straight forward logical deduction. To tolerate murderers encamped in one's country is to harbor those murderers in one's country. ]

For all that Saddam may have tolerated "AaI al Qaeda," "AaI al Qaeda" were situated in an area outside of his control.[You have made this claim many times.

Do you truly think that the US would have prohibited Saddam's troops from entering northern Iraq and doing what the US had asked him to do (remove the leadership of the 2001 critters)? I certainly don't think the US would have done any such thing.

Do you truly think the Kurd's, who themselves (as you pointed out) were planning to remove the 2001 critters would have prohibited Saddam's troops from entering northern Iraq and removing the 2001 critters for them, especially after the US publically asked Saddam to remove those critters? I certainly don't think the Kurds would have done any such thing.]


Furthermore, the 9/11 commission perused questionable evidence in making its claims of "indications of tolerance," so even claims of tolerance are questionable. You take these suspect claims as facts. They are not. [Please be specific. What in the first part of this post do you think is not a fact? Why? What in the above part of this post do you think is not a logical inference? Why?

By the way, the 9-11 Commission was a non-partisan commission made up of Democrats and Republicans. Since when are indications of tolerance "questionable evidence." I think it more logical to call that evidence some evidence, but not conclusive evidence.]


Everything I wrote about what we've accomplished in Afghanistan was in reference to exercises in futility. You had stated that Clintons air strikes didn't destroy al Qaeda; neither did our invasion and occupation of Afghanistan.[Again, I understand that. I also understand that our invasion of Afghanistan sharply reduced the effectiveness of al Qaeda to train its personnel in Afghanistan]


About Britannica.com's claim that, "the Ba'thist regime attempted to direct affairs in the Kurdish Autonomous Region by various means, including military force," i.e. "the Iraqi military launched a successful attack against the Kurdish city of Arbil in 1996," this attack was at the invitation of the KDP. Therefor, the Ba'thist regime did not act unilaterally. Britannica.com's entry is simplistic and misleading, and does not explain the details of the situation in Arbil in 1996. The Iraqi Kurdistan Dispatch and the KDP itself provide the more complex details about the event of 1996 in Abril.
[I allege your i.e. (that is), which I emphasized in your statement in boldface, is logically an e.g.(for example). You allege that Britannica's entry is simplistic and misleading, and does not explain the details of the situation in Arbil in 1996. I allege that Britannica's statement, "the Ba'thist regime attempted to direct affairs in the Kurdish Autonomous Region by various means, including military force" was not referring only to the Arbil situation in 1996.

However, resolving this disagreement between us is not necessary to the conclusion that Saddam harbored al Qaeda. What I presented in the first part of this post is sufficient to establish that Saddam did in deed probably harbor al Qaeda.]
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2005 08:37 pm
Ican when did the US ask Saddam to get rid of AQ in the no fly zone time frame?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jan, 2005 10:06 pm
Hot Topic: How U.S. Might Disengage in Iraq
By DAVID E. SANGER
and ERIC SCHMITT

Published: January 10, 2005



WASHINGTON, Jan. 9 - Three weeks before the election in Iraq, conversation has started bubbling up in Congress, in the Pentagon and some days even in the White House about when and how American forces might begin to disengage in Iraq.

So far it is mostly talk, not planning. The only thing resembling a formal map to the exit door are a series of Pentagon contingency plans for events after the Jan. 30 elections. But one senior administration official warned over the weekend against reading too much into that, saying "the Pentagon has plans for everything," from a new Korean war to relief missions in Africa.

The rumblings about disengagement have grown distinctly louder as members of Congress return from their districts, and as military officers try to game out how Sunni Arabs and Shiites might react to the election results. The annual drafting of the budget is a reminder that the American presence in Iraq is costing $4.5 billion a month and putting huge strains on the military. And, of course, White House officials contemplate the political costs of a second term dominated by a nightly accounting of continuing casualties.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jan, 2005 12:58 am
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/10/business/media/10deal.html?ex=1263099600&en=5ef6ddab94862deb&ei=5089&partner=rssyahoo
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jan, 2005 06:52 am
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jan, 2005 06:55 am


I didn't know he owned directtv. I may cancel my satellite next time renewal come around.

I don't watch telivision news anyway anymore.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jan, 2005 10:30 am
revel, I have satellite radio in my car, but I only listen to classical music. Smile Need the satellite radio, because my car radio doesn't pick up signals in the mountains or in many rural areas - even in California.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jan, 2005 02:22 pm
Quote:
U.S./Iraq: Reject Use of "Death Squads"
10 Jan 2005 17:35:11 GMT

Source: Human Rights Watch

(New York, January 10, 2005) - Washington's creation of "death squads" to fight the insurgency in Iraq would represent a shocking new low in a campaign that has already flouted the Geneva Conventions too many times, Human Rights Watch said today. Newsweek reported Saturday (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6802629/site/newsweek/) that the U.S. Department of Defense is debating the establishment of Iraqi squads to assassinate Sunni insurgents and their sympathizers, or bring them to secret facilities for interrogation.

Experience from countries such as Colombia, Sudan and Russia (in Chechnya) shows that "death squads" and paramilitary groups created to combat insurgencies take on a life of their own and are often difficult to rein in. Once established, it is difficult to prevent them from killing whomever they want for whatever reasons they want, opening up the possibility that civilians will be targeted because of personal or political vendettas in violation of the Geneva Conventions.

"If this plan is real, the Pentagon will rue the day it dreamed it up," said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch. "They are creating a monster that could someday kill the very Iraqi democracy they say they want to build."

Human Rights Watch noted that U.S. and Iraqi forces already have the legal authority to arrest insurgent leaders and, if they resist, to kill them in combat. But deliberately targeting civilians or executing combatants in custody would be a war crime.

According to Newsweek, the Pentagon is referring to the plan as the "Salvador option," a reference to the death squads supported by the United States during the civil wars in El Salvador and Guatemala in the 1980s which became notorious for killing unarmed supporters of the opposition. It also harkens back to Operation Phoenix, a 1969 CIA program of targeted assassinations against the civilian infrastructure that supported the insurgency in South Vietnam, which resulted in widespread atrocities as well.

"The clandestine nature of 'death squads' makes it difficult to establish their chain of command, but no one will be fooled should the Pentagon choose to use this subterfuge to commit war crimes," said Roth.

One military source quoted in Newsweek suggested that a key problem was the unwillingness of the Sunni population to turn insurgents in to the government. "The Sunni population is paying no price for the support it is giving to the terrorists," the source was quoted as saying. "From their point of view, it is cost-free. We have to change that equation." Human Rights Watch said that it will be all the more difficult to discourage terrorist attacks on civilians if the United States is deliberately imposing its own military "cost" on Iraqi civilians.

"The further degradation of the Geneva Conventions would also have dangerous long-term consequences for captured US military personnel and even US civilians," said Roth. "This is the opposite signal that the United States should be sending when it's trying to convince people to abandon terrorism as a military or political tool."


HRW news
source via reuters alert.net
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jan, 2005 03:07 pm
There are 20,000 to 30,000 armed insurgents in Iraq, according to the
director of Iraq's National Intelligence Service, and they are
passively supported by an estimated 200,000 Iraqi
sympathizers.

See this interview with NIS director Major General Muhammad Abdallah al-Shahwani, published in Al Sharq al Awsat on January 5, and translated by the CIA's Foreign Broadcast Information Service:


Quote:
Iraqi Intelligence Service Chief Interviewed on Terrorism, Related IssuesAL-SHARQ AL-AWSAT
Wednesday, January 5, 2005

Telephone interview with Major General Muhammad Abdallah al-Shahwani, director of Iraq's National Intelligence Service, in Baghdad by Mu'idd Fayyad in London on 4 January

(FBIS Translated Text)

Major General Muhammad Abdallah al-Shahwani, director of the Iraqi National Intelligence Service, has estimated the number of gunmen in all parts of Iraq who are carrying out the attacks and bombings at between 20,000 and 30,000. He said they have the sympathy of around 200,000 persons without this meaning that the latter are giving the gunmen any material or logistical support "but are turning a blind eye to the gunmen and do not report them if they have information about them."

In a telephone interview with "Al-Sharq al-Awsat" conducted with him in his office in Baghdad yesterday, he said former Iraqi Vice President Izzat al-Duri, former Regional Command member Muhammad Yunis, and Saddam's half brother Sab'awi Ibrahim al-Hasan are supervising the implementation of qualitative operations because of their huge financial influence. He pointed out that these leaders "are in Syria and move easily the to Iraqi territories." He also reported that the Ba'th Party has split into three wings and that Na'im Haddad and Tayih Abd-al-Karim are now operating inside the Iraqi territories.

(Fayyad) What is your estimate of the number of gunmen in Iraq?

(Al-Shahwani) We call them officially terrorists because they carry out terrorist actions against the citizens and are outlaws. Their number in all parts of Iraq is between 20,000 and 30,000 and they are mostly in the Sunni areas where the population there, almost 200,000, is sympathetic to them. But they do not provide them with any material or logistical help. For example, they do not report their activities if they have the information.

(Fayyad) This means that these 200,000 persons do not fight the gunmen?

(Al-Shahwani) It is impossible for the number of gunmen to be 200,000. These people live in the areas where the terrorists are active. Take for example the right side of the city of Mosul. From the security point of view, it is out control. The terrorists are active in this side and the inhabitants there do not report them and very often shelter them.

(Fayyad) Do the gunmen belong to one party or several ones?

(Al-Shahwani) They are the Ba'thist remnants, hard-line extremists, and others.

(Fayyad) Statements by Iraqi officials and the US administration blamed Jordanian extremist Abu-Mus'ab al-Zarqawi for the terrorist operations. The accusations were recently turned toward the Ba'thists and their leaders. Has the situation changed or are there new facts?

(Al-Shahwani) The situation has not changed. The B'ath Party was organized many years ago and all that happened is that it re-established its organizations, which receive good financial help from their leaders in Syria. Their operations are relatively sophisticated because of their large numbers, their expertise, and their financial resources.

(Fayyad) What is your estimate of the number of Ba'thists who are involved in the armed operations at present?

(Al-Shahwani) I cannot specify their number now but we estimate the number of the Ba'th Party members in the past at 2 million. If 20 percent have remained, then their number is large and all of them are members of organizations and have weapons. A large number of people are working with the Ba'thists to earn a livelihood after finding themselves without jobs, especially those who were in the former Iraqi army.

(Fayyad) Who is leading these organizations at present?

(Al-Shahwani) According to our information, there were splits in the Iraqi Ba'th Party and there are today three wings. The strongest one is the former regime's people who have huge financial resources.

(Fayyad) Are there certain names among these leaders?

(Al-Shahwani) There are Izzat al-Duri, Muhammad Yunis al-Ahmad who moves between Syria and Iraq, Sab'awi al-Hasan, and others from the old Ba'thist leaders who live in Syria.

(Fayyad) Do you believe that there are Arab or foreign parties supporting them?

(Al-Shahwani) These do not need any financial backing. As it is known, the Ba'th Party is the richest in the world. It used to deduct 5 percent of the oil revenues (the Gulbenkian share) since 1970 for the party's budget.

(Fayyad) Has not the Iraqi Government demanded their extradition from the Syrian Government?

(Al-Shahwani) There are such attempts but they have not borne fruit so far.

(Fayyad) But the Syrian authorities deny they are in their territories?

(Al-Shahwani) No. We are certain that they are in Syria and moving easily between Syrian and Iraqi territories.

(Fayyad) Are there other Ba'thist leaders?

(Al-Shahwani) There is a group that split from the Ba'thists, the regime's group, and it is led by Tayih Abd-al-Karim and Na'im Haddad, both of whom are operating inside Iraq.

(Fayyad) Did the military operations in Al-Fallujah help weaken or reduce the armed operations?

(Al-Shahwani) The abatement is in the city of Al-Fallujah only.

(Fayyad) And the other parts of Iraq?

(Al-Shahwani) We cannot achieve results in the guerilla warfare that the terrorist groups fight like the results achieved in conventional or regular war. The aim of the operation in Al-Fallujah was to crush the terrorist gangs or arrest their members. But the results achieved in Al-Fallujah did not bring about the arrest of the terrorists or the killing of their leaders. We did not see or hear that any senior terrorist leader was arrested or killed. The terrorist gangs' leaders fled from Al-Fallujah before the start of the military operations and they began to operate in other areas or hid outside Al-Fallujah. There is in every fighting an aim and the aim of the Al-Fallujah operation was to eliminate the terrorists and their leaders. But this aim was not achieved on the ground even though the city was brought under control.

(Fayyad) What are the sources of the armed groups?

(Al-Shahwani) The Ba'th Party and the extremist fundamentalist organizations, which are the "Ansar al-Sunnah", "Monotheism and Jihad", "Ansar al-Islam", "the 1920 Revolution", and other appellations. They total around 12 groups.

(Fayyad) All these factions you mentioned are Sunni. Is there not a Shiite one among them?

(Al-Shahwani) Muqtada al-Sadr's group was fighting like these factions. But there is not now a Shiite group that carries arms against the government.

(Fayyad) Iraqi officials' statements pointed to Iran and Syria as two sources of support for these groups. Has anything changed in this matter?

(Al-Shahwani) I personally have not felt any change in stands. Problems continue to come from these two countries because the borders are open and the support is continuing so as to achieve their interests.

(Fayyad) What impact are the armed operations having on the elections process?

(Al-Shahwani) They will most certainly have an impact on the elections. Part of the Iraqis will not be able to reach the voting centers and this will have a major negative effect on the elections.

(Fayyad) In a democratic state, why is there a need for an intelligence service?

(Al-Shahwani) There is not a country in the world that does not have an intelligence service (like ours) to protect the country and all the Iraqi people communities and hunt down the terrorist gangs and drugs gangs and all matters that concern the state's security. We usually follow, watch, and collect the information and hand it over to the security authorities whose duty is to implement the military operations to protect the country's security.

(Fayyad) Do you believe that the armed operations will increase or become less?

(Al-Shahwani) This depends on the elections. We have to wait for their results and see what happens. Our expectations as a security apparatus are that these operations will abate and end after one year.

(Fayyad) From the security angle, which are the hot areas in Iraq at present?

(Al-Shahwani) They wrongly called it the Sunni triangle even though there are very hot areas like Diyali where the Shiites constitute almost half the population. There is also the area north of Babil that extends to "Al-Suwayrah" and "Salman Pak." There are areas that are difficult to reach like the area between Al-Hadar and Mosul which is out of control and where the armed groups search the population in the streets. There is also the area extending from Al-Sharqat down to Biji and Samarra. The security situations in all these areas are hot. This is in addition to Al-Ramadi, Al-Fallujah, and nearby areas. As to inside Baghdad, there is the Haifa Street, Al-A'zamiyah, Al-Durah, Al-Ghazaliyah, and the airport road. All these areas are hot and dangerous. These terrorists will receive their punishment, God willing.

(Description of Source: London Al-Sharq al-Awsat in Arabic -- Influential Saudi-owned London daily providing independent coverage of Arab and international issues; editorials reflect official Saudi views on foreign policy)
source via Secrecy News
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jan, 2005 03:11 pm
Walter, Interesting post considering the fact that Bush is trying to get a new Attorney General who has authorized certain types of 'violence' against prisoners at Gitmo and Abu Garaib. They are beginning to show their true colors, but I doubt the neocons will think anything is wrong in how they fight terrorists (us).
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jan, 2005 04:46 pm
Say, how's it hangin', Yer Imminents? Is this little ol' war gonna be quick and easy? Does the pope **** in the woods!?

Quote:
Cardinal Says Bush Broke Iraq Promise
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: January 10, 2005

Filed at 9:49 a.m. ET

VATICAN CITY (AP) -- The Italian cardinal sent by Pope John Paul II last year to try to dissuade President Bush from invading Iraq said Monday the president promised that the U.S. operation would be ``quick.''

Cardinal Pio Laghi visited Bush at the White House on March 5, 2003, to relay the pope's position that dialogue, not arms, should be used to resolve the crisis over Iraq, which the United States accused of harboring weapons of mass destruction.

``When I went to Washington as the pope's envoy just before the outbreak of the war in Iraq, he (Bush) told me: `Don't worry, your eminence. We'll be quick and do well in Iraq,''' Laghi told Italian Catholic TV station Telepace, which was broadcasting the pontiff's annual address to diplomats.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jan, 2005 05:09 pm
revel wrote:
Ican when did the US ask Saddam to get rid of AQ in the no fly zone time frame?

Quote:
D. To the UN, Colin Powell alleged, 2/5/2003:
OLD: www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2003/17300pf.htm
NEW: www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2003/17300.htm

1. Iraq today harbors a deadly terrorist network headed by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi an associate and collaborator of Usama bin Laden and his al-Qaida lieutenants.

2. When our coalition ousted the Taliban, the Zarqawi network helped establish another poison and explosive training center camp, and this camp is located in northeastern Iraq. ||| Those helping to run this camp are Zarqawi lieutenants operating in northern Kurdish areas outside Saddam Hussein's controlled Iraq. But Baghdad has an agent in the most senior levels of the radical organization Ansar al-Islam that controls this corner of Iraq. In 2000, this agent offered al-Qaida safe haven in the region. After we swept al-Qaida from Afghanistan, some of those members accepted this safe haven. They remain there today.

3. We asked a friendly security service to approach Baghdad about extraditing Zarqawi and providing information about him and his close associates. This service contacted Iraqi officials twice and we passed details that should have made it easy to find Zarqawi. The network remains in Baghdad. Zarqawi still remains at large, to come and go.


Note: These three excerpts from the speech of Powell's to the UN 2/5/03, constituted a third contact of Iraqi officials. The US invaded Iraq 3/20/03.
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