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THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 08:50 am
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO EVERYONE.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 08:58 am
There were fewer pages in the past. A efficiency model was introducedwhich led to the limiting of posts/page to increase loading times and to reduce lag. So in the past, there were fewer pages...
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 10:35 am
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4113679.stm
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 10:35 am
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4113679.stm

Sorry, duplicate of above. Couldn't delete.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 11:03 am
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/21/international/middleeast/21cnd-iraq.html?ex=1261371600&en=29777aecf35c31f7&ei=5089&partner=rssyahoo
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 11:18 am
C.I,

Could you provide some info on what the links are about? I hate following blind links.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 11:41 am
Drew,

From the first link:

Quote:
New jail abuse allegations hit US

Some documents post-date the Abu Ghraib scandal
Fresh allegations have emerged of serious mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners by US military personnel.
Memos between FBI officials detailing abuses, some dated after the Abu Ghraib jail scandal, were released as part of a lawsuit against the government.





From the second link:

Quote:
Militant Group Says It Was Responsible; Over 60 Wounded
By RICHARD A. OPPEL Jr. and CHRISTINE HAUSER

Published: December 21, 2004


AGHDAD, Iraq, Dec. 21 - An attack at an American military base in Mosul today killed more than 20 people and wounded more than 60, among them American and Iraqi soldiers and American and foreign contractors, the military said today.


Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 11:56 am
Bush's Approval Rating Falls 6 Percent
LAST UPDATE: 12/21/2004 9:11:29 AM


United Press International


U.S. President George Bush's approval rating has slipped 6 percent from November to 49 percent, a CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll published Tuesday said.

The slide makes Bush the first incumbent president to have an approval rating below 50 percent one month after winning re-election.

When asked how the United States has handled Iraq during the past year, 47 percent of 1,002 people surveyed by telephone said things have gotten worse, 20 percent said the situation has improved and 32 percent said it is about the same. The differences fell outside the question's margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Also for the first time, USA Today said a majority of 51 percent disapprove of the decision to go to war in Iraq, and 58 percent disapprove of the way the United States has handled Iraq over the past few months.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 11:58 am
Quote from above post, "...20 percent said the situation has improved and 32 percent said it is about the same." It seems more than half of the people really do not keep up with the news, even after Bush said the insurgency problem has gotten worse. These are the same people that voted in the last election.
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 12:44 pm
Maybe some people just don't have a lot of time to wait for a time Bush actually says something directly and so missed that rare admission of Bush's.

Why Are You Asking Me?
The president's don't-ask, don't-tell press conference.
By Chris Suellentrop
Posted Monday, Dec. 20, 2004, at 3:27 PM PT



What is the purpose of a presidential press conference? Is it to allow reporters to ask the president questions? Or is it to get the president to answer them? Dodging the question is one of the most important (and most-used) weapons in a politician's arsenal, of course. In The Fog of War, Robert McNamara cited the traditional ploy of answering the question you wish you were asked, rather than the question you actually were asked. (Think of it as the reverse of Donald Rumsfeld's first rule of war: You reply to the question you might want or wish to have, not the question you have.) But President Bush, as he demonstrated during Monday's question-and-not-answer session with the White House press corps, has dispensed with that old trick. Instead, Bush, having invited reporters to ask him questions on live television, repeatedly told reporters that their questions would be better directed at someone else.

How long will U.S. troops be in Iraq? Ask Gens. Abizaid and Casey. What's the broad framework for Social Security reform? Ask Congress. Has the Iraq war improved the prospects for peace in the Middle East? Go ask the Palestinians. Every time he was confronted with a difficult question, Bush answered, Go ask someone else. You expect a press secretary or a Cabinet officer, to say, "I'll get back to you," or "That's above my pay grade," or "You'd have to ask the president." Well, now the president has been asked. And he told us to ask you.

"Well again, I will repeat, don't bother to ask me," Bush said in response to a question about what "tough measures" might need to be taken to establish private Social Security accounts. "Oh, you can ask me. I shouldn't?-I can't tell you what to ask, it's not the holiday spirit." But I'm not going to answer, so don't waste your time: "I will negotiate at the appropriate time with the law writers, and so thank you for trying." On the question of how long American troops will remain in Iraq, Bush said, "The best people that reflect the answer to that question are people like Abizaid and Casey who are right there on the ground." On the Middle East peace process, Bush said, effectively, don't get your hopes up, but the Palestinians are the ones with the answer: "But I'm realistic about how to achieve peace, and it starts with my understanding that there will never be peace until a true democratic state emerges in the Palestinian territory. And I'm hopeful right now, because the?-the Palestinians will begin to have elections. I have?-well, not begin?-will have elections, which is the beginning of the process toward the development of state. It is not the sign that democracy has arrived. It is the beginning of a process."

Bush did have a clear answer for one thing, in response to a question he wasn't asked. (Two things, if you include his clear admission that he won't be attending the Rose Bowl to watch his home-state Texas Longhorns.) During his introductory statement, Bush explained that Iraq will have "a fully democratic constitutional government" within a year, if the people of Iraq ratify the constitution that will be drafted by the government elected in January. Many observers have worried that the Sunnis in Iraq won't see the new constitution as legitimate (or "fully democratic") if they can't participate in the January elections. Bush dismissed those concerns: "More than 80 parties and coalitions have been formed, and more 7,000 candidates have registered for the elections."

You go to the polls with the democracy you have, not the democracy that you might wish or want to have, but the test of an "energetic" democracy isn't the number of political parties and candidates it fields for each election. That's the same logic the administration used to defend its unimpressive coalition for the Iraq invasion. OK, there aren't any Arab countries, and a lot of important Europeans are missing, but hey, look at the raw numbers! So what if we don't have the Sunnis (the French and Germans)? We have 7,000 other candidates (Costa Rica, Estonia, and don't forget Poland). It's an election of the willing. Or perhaps the able.

Chris Suellentrop is Slate's deputy Washington bureau chief. You can e-mail him at [email protected].

Article URL: http://slate.msn.com/id/2111245/
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 01:25 pm
Well...consdering the limits of his intelligence, Revel, I think it is very unfair of reporters to ask the president questions that require answers.

:wink:
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 01:29 pm
If the Sunni's opt not to vote, they can be just the masses in America that op to not vote in the elections. No one can force them to participate, but they should be made aware of the consequences of not participating.
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 01:55 pm
Suppose the 1/30/2005 Iraqi election fails as a consequence of all elected candidates being murdered before the end of February by the Iraqi insurgents.

What do you recommend the US do about it?

What do you recommend the US do now to prevent it?
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 02:00 pm
That's a scary proposition but not beyond possibility Ican, as the terrorists no doubt have every one of those candidates targeted.
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 02:03 pm
ican711nm wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
australia wrote:
You can't attack terrorists. That was what was ingenious about the bombing. Who do you attack back? If it was a country, then attack them, but it wasn't, it was groups here and there, cells here, sleepers there. You are fighting an invisible enemy who think nothing of giving their life away.


then why the g.d. hell are so intent on backing the war in iraq. you are saying the exact same thing i have been saying for 3 bloody years !

jesus! al qaida is a "shadow army".

one more time... we are fighting spies and and sabateurs. we have to fight them with the same... and guard the freaking borders.

dammit. this soooo frustrating.
Good Defense versus Good Offense; that is the question.

The Maginot Line versus a strong and ready counter attacking military?

A wise person attempts to remove those governments that harbor al Qaeda with the realistic expectation that if one does that to enough such governments, few if any such governments will harbor them. If few if any such governments harbor al Qaeda they will either cease to be effective or cease to exist. But such an approach requires far more patience than hiding in a closet. Also it is far more time consuming and expensive in lives and money than hiding in a closet.

An unwise person puts up walls to keep al Qaeda away from the civilians al Qaeda wants to murder (i.e., hides in closets). Historically, such walls have proven to be expensive to build and maintain, ineffective, and relatively easy to circumvent, tunnel under, or blast through. Worse, the citizens al Qaeda wants to murder cannot survive huddled behind walls, because to survive they must make their bread and earn their bread in places that either don't have walls or cannot afford walls.



right.... so then we can look forward to toppling the following for starters;

pakistan
iran
syria
chechnya
the phillipines
suadi arabia
sudan
katar
uae
north ireland

and the united states... where al qaida has been harboured for who knows how long.

ican, it's not unwise to enforce the existing laws regarding border control. it is unwise to continue soft handling the borders in order to allow illegals to stream across the border to supply cheap and submissive labor.
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 02:05 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Interestingly enough, I just noticed that I got a PM from Frank earlier. He said Bush is a moron.


frank said what , sonny ? can't find my derned ear horn ...
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 02:20 pm
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Interestingly enough, I just noticed that I got a PM from Frank earlier. He said Bush is a moron.


frank said what , sonny ? can't find my derned ear horn ...


Actually...he was kidding.

I have not referred to George Bush in that way since he won re-election.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 02:21 pm
Although I did make a remark about his intelligence earlier today...but not using that other word...and really just trying to be funny.

ADDED IN EDIT: In fact, it was just up above on this page!!!!
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DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 02:32 pm
darnit !

i was waiting for someone to repeat it in BOLD, ALL CAPS, WITH EXCLAMATIONS !!

never get to have any fun around here. mumble, mumble... Laughing
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 02:49 pm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4116487.stm


Attack on US troops is worst yet

Large groups tend to gather in the dining area
Nineteen US soldiers have been killed in an explosion at a US military base in Mosul, making it the worst single incident for the US military in Iraq.
Six Iraqi civilians were also killed in the attack which happened in a dining tent at the base at noon (0900 GMT).
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