0
   

THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

 
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 03:23 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Heathen :wink:


There's worse things to be. Although I prefer the term atheist.

Anyhow, Christianity and most other religions are fine. It's a good code to live by, and I've no problem with that. If only those claiming to be its adherents would abide by its teachings, eh?

New Testament replies only please, the Old is too difficult for me. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Einherjar
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 03:33 am
I'm with Frank.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 03:36 am
ican711nm wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
:wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:
Hello again! May you have a Merry secular Christmas and a Happy New Year. :wink:



Merry XMas, Mike. And a Happy New Year to you and your family.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 03:39 am
Lemme see...

...what was I gonna say about George Bush???


Jeez...it slipped my mind!

If I think of it...I'll post it later.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 05:27 am
Frank: Due to your efforts, Time Magazine just named him Moron of the Year. Congratulations!
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 08:13 am
Is it politically correct here to wish friends and foes a Merry Christmas? I think a New Year could probably be happy for everybody unless you're Chinese for which right now a Happy New Year could be confusing.

Well, that's enough philosophical observation for one morning.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 08:15 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Is it politically correct here to wish friends and foes a Merry Christmas? I think a New Year could probably be happy for everybody unless you're Chinese for which right now a Happy New Year could be confusing.

Well, that's enough philosophical observation for one morning.



MERRY CHRISTMAS, Fox.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 08:18 am
MERRY CHRISTMAS Frank Smile
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 08:21 am
Foxfyre wrote:
MERRY CHRISTMAS Frank Smile


Thanks.

It will be!

I'm cooking for 10 people.

Makin' turkey with all the fixin's. Lots of desserts.

We'll have a ball.


Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday...with Christmas a very close second.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 08:22 am
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=3&u=/nm/20041221/ts_nm/iraq_poll_dc

Poll: Americans' Support for Iraq War Slipping

Tue Dec 21, 2:56 AM ET


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A majority of Americans now say the war in Iraq (news - web sites) was not worth fighting, a view that has driven down the ratings of President Bush (news - web sites) and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, according to an ABC News/Washington Post poll released on Monday.


Fifty-six percent of those questioned, a new high, said that the cost of the war outweighs the benefits and is not worth it. It marked a gain of seven percentage points from a poll conducted in July.


Fifty-seven percent said they disapprove of the way Bush is handling the situation in Iraq, and 53 percent disapprove of the way Rumsfeld is handling his job, according to the survey.


However, 60 percent said the Iraqi elections scheduled for Jan. 30 should go forward regardless of the security situation.


The poll also found that most Americans -- 58 percent -- still say U.S. forces should remain in Iraq until order is restored.


Several Republican lawmakers have expressed doubts about Rumsfeld's performance and some Democrats want him fired over his handling of the war. More than half of the poll respondents, 52 percent, said Rumsfeld should be replaced.


Separately, a new USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll also found growing pessimism over Iraq. Nearly 60 percent said they disapprove of the way the United States was handling the situation in Iraq and 52 percent said Rumsfeld should resign.


Bush defended Rumsfeld at a news conference on Monday, saying the Pentagon (news - web sites) chief was "a good human being" and "doing a really fine job."


According to the ABC News/Washington Post poll, Bush's approval rating on Iraq dropped to 42 percent, down from 60 percent a year ago. Fewer than half said they believe there has been significant progress toward restoring order in Iraq, down from 51 percent last summer.


The ABC News/Washington Post telephone poll of 1,004 adults was conducted Dec. 16-19 and has a three-point margin of error.


The USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup poll of 1,002 adults was conducted Dec. 17-19 and has a 4.5-point margin of error.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 08:22 am
Edit - redundant.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 08:23 am
And just in - blast at US base in Mosul - "multiple casualties"


http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1079844#1079844
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 08:23 am
Sorry dlowan, it seems we posted the same article, I tried to delete mine but couldn't.

I have a couple more to fill up the pages.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 08:24 am
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/21/politics/21abuse.html?th

December 21, 2004
PRISONERS
New F.B.I. Files Describe Abuse of Iraq Inmates
By NEIL A. LEWIS and DAVID JOHNSTON

ASHINGTON, Dec. 20 - F.B.I. memorandums portray abuse of prisoners by American military personnel in Iraq that included detainees' being beaten and choked and having lit cigarettes placed in their ears, according to newly released government documents.

The documents, released Monday in connection with a lawsuit accusing the government of being complicit in torture, also include accounts by Federal Bureau of Investigation agents who said they had seen detainees in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, being chained in uncomfortable positions for up to 24 hours and left to urinate and defecate on themselves. An agent wrote that in one case a detainee who was nearly unconscious had pulled out much of his hair during the night.

One of the memorandums released Monday was addressed to Robert S. Mueller III, the F.B.I. director, and other senior bureau officials, and it provided the account of someone "who observed serious physical abuses of civilian detainees" in Iraq. The memorandum, dated June 24 this year, was an "Urgent Report," meaning that the sender regarded it as a priority. It said the witness "described that such abuses included strangulation, beatings, placement of lit cigarettes into the detainees' ear openings and unauthorized interrogations."

The memorandum did not make clear whether the witness was an agent or an informant, and it said there had also been an effort to cover up the abuses. The writer of the memorandum said Mr. Mueller should be aware of what was occurring because "of potential significant public, media and Congressional interest which may generate calls to the director." The document does not provide further details of the abuse, but suggests that such treatment of prisoners in Iraq was the subject of an investigation conducted by the bureau's Sacramento office.

Beyond providing new details about the nature and extent of abuses, if not the exact times or places, the newly disclosed documents are the latest to show that such activities were known to a wide circle of government officials.

The documents, mostly memorandums written by agents to superiors in Washington over the past year, also include claims that some military interrogators had posed as F.B.I. officials while using harsh tactics on detainees, both in Iraq and at Guantánamo Bay.

In one memorandum, dated Dec. 5, 2003, an agent whose name is blanked out on the document expressed concern about military interrogators' posing as F.B.I. agents at the Guantánamo camp.

The agent wrote that the memorandum was intended as an official record of the interrogators' behavior because, "If this detainee is ever released or his story made public in any way, D.O.D. interrogators will not be held accountable because these torture techniques were done by 'F.B.I.' interrogators. The F.B.I. will be left holding the bag before the public." D.O.D. is an abbreviation for the Department of Defense.

Asked about the possible impersonation of F.B.I. agents by military personnel, Bryan Whitman, the deputy Pentagon spokesman, said Monday that "It is difficult to determine from the secondhand description whether the technique" was permissible.

The Pentagon did not offer any fresh reaction to the descriptions of alleged abuse. But it said in response to other recent disclosures that the Defense Department did not tolerate abusive tactics and that some of the allegations contained in such documents were under investigation.

The documents were in the latest batch of papers to be released by the government in response to a lawsuit brought by the American Civil Liberties Union and other groups to determine the extent, if any, of American participation in the mistreatment of prisoners. The documents are the most recent in a series of disclosures that have increasingly contradicted the military's statements that harsh treatment of prisoners happened only in limited, isolated cases.

Anthony D. Romero, the executive director of the A.C.L.U., said the documents meant that "top government officials can no longer hide from public scrutiny by pointing the finger at a few low-ranking soldiers."

Another message sent to F.B.I. officials including Valerie E. Caproni, the bureau's top lawyer, recounted witnessing detainees chained in interrogation rooms at Guantánamo, where about 550 prisoners are being held.

The agent, whose name was deleted from the document, wrote on July 29, 2004: "On a couple of occasions, I entered interview rooms to find a detainee chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor, with no chair, food or water. Most times they had urinated or defecated on themselves and had been left there for 18 24 hours or more."

The agent said that on another occasion, the air-conditioning had been turned up so high that a chained detainee was shivering. The agent said the military police had explained by saying that interrogators from the previous day had ordered the treatment and "that the detainee was not to be moved."

The agent also wrote: "On another occasion, the A/C had been turned off, making the temperature in the unventilated room probably well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his own hair out throughout the night."

As in previously released memorandums in the case, F.B.I. officials expressed their deep concerns about seeing the use of interrogation techniques that they are prohibited from using in their own investigations.

The Dec. 5, 2003, memorandum in which an agent frets about the F.B.I. being left "holding the bag," also asserted that the threats and abuses of one detainee did not produce any intelligence that could help thwart an attack. Further, the memorandum said other bureau officials believed that the harsh interrogation techniques would have meant that any chances of prosecuting the individual were destroyed because the evidence would have to be thrown out in court because it was coerced.

The issue of military interrogators' impersonating F.B.I. agents was especially troubling to bureau officials, according to the memorandums, not least because they seem to have been unsuccessful in persuading the military to stop the practice.


Guantánamo Inmate to Be Freed


WASHINGTON, Dec. 20 (AP) - A military review has determined that a second prisoner held at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, is wrongly classified as an enemy combatant and will be released to his home country soon, the Navy secretary said Monday.

Navy Secretary Gordon England refused to provide the man's name or nationality.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 08:25 am
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/21/national/21deport.html

Program's Value in Dispute as a Tool to Fight Terrorism
By RACHEL L. SWARNS

Published: December 21, 2004


he anxious man with silvering hair joined the sea of immigrants pouring into the steel and glass building in Manhattan that houses one of the nation's busiest immigration courts. When a judge called his name on one recent morning, the man, Rafiqul Islam of Bangladesh, steeled himself to hear that his life in America was finally over.

Last year, Mr. Islam and thousands of other Arab and Muslim men came forward to be fingerprinted, photographed and interviewed by immigration officials hunting for terrorists. Officials ultimately determined that almost none of them had links to terrorism. But Mr. Islam was in this country illegally, and the judge said he had no choice but to deport him.

"You must leave the United States no later than Feb. 25," the judge, Gabriel Videla, told Mr. Islam, 63. "Good luck, sir."

Mr. Islam is one of nearly 13,000 illegal immigrants from Arab and Muslim countries who were placed in deportation proceedings after voluntarily participating last year in the nation's largest effort to register immigrants in decades. The counterterrorism program, created after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, was hailed as a success by Justice Department officials, who said they had arrested suspected terrorists and gathered vital information about more than 83,000 immigrants from countries considered breeding grounds for terrorism.

But though the program made the government aware of thousands of illegal immigrants like Mr. Islam, officials now say there is little evidence to suggest that it succeeded in capturing suspected terrorists. Homeland Security officials, who said that six men linked to terrorism were arrested as a result of the call-in program, have been challenged by the Sept. 11 commission, which reported this year that it had found little evidence to support that claim.

The commission said two of the six men were captured through other means. It could not determine how the remaining suspects were arrested and concluded that the counterterrorism benefits of the program were "unclear."

The call-in program required male noncitizens from 25 mostly Arab and Muslim countries to register with immigration authorities between November 2002 and April 2003. None of the Arab and Muslim men who came forward has been charged with crimes related to terrorism.

Homeland Security officials, who inherited the program from the Justice Department, suspended it 12 months ago, saying resources could be better used on other counterterrorism initiatives. They declined to comment on the commission's findings. But the impact of the program continues to be felt across the country as some illegal immigrants who registered with the authorities receive deportation orders, while others wage legal battles to remain in the United States.

In the Midwood section of Brooklyn, the Muslim owners of more than 30 businesses have already shuttered their stores and left the country, community advocates say. In Columbia, Md., Nasir Qureshi, a Pakistani jeweler, is scrambling to legalize his status by Dec. 31, the deadline set by a local immigration judge, so that he does not have to uproot his wife and three young children. In Ann Arbor, Mich., two taxi drivers from Morocco who had dreamed of finding wives and well-paying jobs have been ordered to return home by Feb. 14.

And in Elmhurst, Queens, Mr. Islam, an engineer and artisan, is preparing to pack his bags after eight years in the United States.

For his 22-year-old daughter, Nishat, who plans to stay behind, the news of his coming departure was a second blow. Last year, her husband was deported after participating in the program.

Some officials say this sweeping roundup of illegal immigrants diverted resources from more pressing counterterrorism needs, strained relations with some Arab and Muslim nations and alienated immigrants who might otherwise have been willing to help the government hunt for terror cells in this country. Because the immigration service has long lacked adequate resources to crack down on the millions of illegal immigrants living here, some advocacy groups have accused officials of practicing selective enforcement by focusing on those from Arab and Muslim nations.

James W. Ziglar, who was commissioner of the Immigration and Naturalization Service before it was subsumed into the Department of Homeland Security, said he and members of his staff had raised doubts about the benefits of the special registration program when Justice Department officials first proposed it. He said he had questioned devoting significant resources to the initiative because he believed it unlikely that terrorists would voluntarily submit to intensive scrutiny.

"The question was, 'What were we going to get for all of this?' " said Mr. Ziglar, whose employees at the I.N.S. were responsible for registering the Arab and Muslim immigrants. "The people who could be identified as terrorists weren't going to show up. This project was a huge exercise and caused us to use resources in the field that could have been much better deployed."

"As expected, we got nothing out of it," said Mr. Ziglar, who had a cool relationship with his boss, Attorney General John Ashcroft, before leaving government service in 2002. "To my knowledge, not one actual terrorist was identified. But what we did get was a lot of bad publicity, litigation and disruption in our relationships with immigrant communities and countries that we needed help from in the war on terror."

Kris Kobach, the architect of the program at the Justice Department, disputes that assessment, saying the program was invaluable. He said it had provided the government with fingerprints, photographs, banking and credit card records about Arab and Muslim immigrants that were previously unavailable.

The mass registrations were necessary, Mr. Kobach said, because there was no systematic way to track immigrants once they entered the country, a fault that became evident when it was found that some Sept. 11 hijackers had overstayed their visas. And he dismissed concerns about the impact of the program on immigrants, noting that only those living here illegally were subject to deportation.

In the 1940's and 1950's, with mounting fears of war and Soviet infiltration, the government also conducted mass registrations of immigrants, eventually involving more than two million. Mr. Kobach said officials tried to walk a fine line with the special registration program, striving to protect national security while maintaining the nation's commitment to immigrants.

"No one was charged with terrorism crimes, but that argument completely misses the point," said Mr. Kobach, who was an adviser to Mr. Ashcroft and is now a law professor at the University of Missouri-Kansas City.

"We gained a lot of information and we have to remember the disruptive value: this forced terror cells in the United States to modify their behavior," said Mr. Kobach, who disputes the Sept. 11 commission's conclusions. "We were able to identify terrorists who came in to register. And for those terrorists who didn't come in, we now have a legal basis for arrest if we encounter them."

The program, which made failure to register a misdemeanor and grounds for deportation, has given the authorities the legal basis to arrest and deport suspected terrorists, even those who are in the United States legally.

In its report, the Sept. 11 commission noted that one detainee from Al Qaeda reported that government efforts to review immigration files and deport Muslim immigrants had made Qaeda operations more difficult. The commission said that if the detainee was credible, the program might have had a deterrent effect, but that it was difficult to measure the success of operations that include deterrence as a goal.

The commission also made it clear that concerns about the program extended beyond the Immigration and Naturalization Service. Some State Department officials feared that the program would offend Arab and Muslim nations that were cooperating with the United States in the global campaign against terrorism. Robert S. Mueller III, director of the F.B.I., echoed those concerns in testimony before the commission, saying the program came at a cost to American relations with important allies.

In a notice published in the Federal Register last year, Department of Homeland Security officials said the initiative was not cost-effective. But they say it did provide some important benefits.

They say they still use information collected from the registrants to track immigrants who raise security concerns. They have initiated deportation proceedings against 192 immigrants who failed to register and charged a handful of them with misdemeanor crimes.

"It was the right tool back then," said Victor X. Cerda, the acting director of detention and deportation operations at the Department of Homeland Security. "But we've moved forward to start looking in a more targeted manner now. It's potentially more efficient and more effective using our resources in a more targeted manner."

Some aspects of the original registration program remain. Immigrants from the 25 countries are still required to register with immigration officials when they enter and leave the country. Officials had said this practice would be eliminated when fingerprinting and photographing of foreign visitors at airports became routine, but now say they have kept the process because the interviews required of registrants are more extensive than those required of most foreign visitors.

But it is the call-in program that has many immigrant neighborhoods churning. After the program was announced in 2002, hundreds of illegal immigrants from Arab and Muslim nations fled to Canada. Others burrowed more deeply underground.

Of the 192 men placed in deportation proceedings for failing to register, 35 have already left the country. Officials say they do not know how many of the roughly 13,000 illegal immigrants who registered have been deported so far. But in many cities, Arab and Muslim immigrants are quietly vanishing one by one.

In Pittsburgh, Abdel Qader Abu-Snaineh, a 22-year-old student from Jordan who lived in the United States legally and graduated with a bachelor's degree in computer science from La Roche College in Pittsburgh, was sent home in October because he forgot to register. In Brooklyn, Moustafa Fahmy, 52, who washed cars for a living, went back to Egypt in October after acknowledging that he was living illegally in the United States when he registered last year.

In Queens, Mr. Islam spends sleepless nights, wondering how his daughter and two grandchildren will cope without him. He and his daughter traveled to this country on tourist visas in 1996 and stayed on after they expired, hoping to build lives here. Ever since his son-in-law, who managed a perfume store, was deported in October 2003, Mr. Islam has tried to support his family by selling ornate handmade placards and wooden figurines.

Immigration officials have not tried to systematically deport the relatives of the Arab and Muslim men who registered with the government. So for now, Mr. Islam's daughter plans to remain here. But since her husband was deported, she has struggled to find work and often cannot afford food or medicine for her young children.

"In our country, we think America is the dream country," she said bitterly. "But our dreams are broken. There are no dreams come true here."

Mr. Islam acknowledges that he was living in the United States illegally and does not have grounds to legalize his status. He will not hide, he says, or try to evade the deportation order. But he still cannot understand why the government would force him to leave when he willingly responded to its call for help in the hunt for terrorists.

"We know that if we stay in this country we should obey the rules," Mr. Islam said. "That's why we went to register. I wasn't worried. I knew I hadn't done anything bad. We came here just to work and to prosper."
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 08:29 am
revel wrote:
Sorry dlowan, it seems we posted the same article, I tried to delete mine but couldn't.

I have a couple more to fill up the pages.


Lol - snap!!!!


AlJazeera article on Bush and Guantanamo:

http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=6298

Bush admits Guantanamo shattered U.S. image
12/21/2004 7:00:00 AM GMT
Bush admitted that the Guantanamo Bay detention facility has tarnished the U.S. image abroad


United States President George W Bush admitted that the Guantanamo Bay detention facility has tarnished the U.S. image abroad.

However, he said that the criticism wasn?t fair.

When asked whether he thinks the long-term detentions and 20 specially designed military commissions could damage America's reputation as fair and just nation, Bush replied:

"We're a nation of laws and to the extent that people say well America is no longer a nation of laws that does hurt our reputation," he said.

"But I think it's an unfair criticism as you might remember our courts have made a ruling."

"They look at the jurisdiction, the right of people in Guantanamo to have habeas [corpus] review and so we're now complying with the court's decisions."


Guantanamo detainee wrongly held

A military review has found a second prisoner at the U.S. Naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, wrongly classified as an enemy combatant, the Navy's top civilian said Monday.

Of the 200 Guantanamo detainees already released, a dozen have returned to the battlefield, Navy Secretary Gordon England said.

During a news conference on Monday, Bush said "You've got to understand the dilemma we're in. These are people that got scooped up off a battlefield attempting to kill U.S. troops. And I want to make sure, before they're released, that they don't come back to kill again."

The latest prisoner to be released would be the second freed under a military process instituted after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled last summer Guantanamo prisoners could challenge their detentions through the U.S. court system.

In an attempt to bolster its case for each of the prisoners against any such challenge, the Pentagon has set up tribunals to review circumstances of each detainee?s capture to determine whether they are properly held.

England rejected identifying the prisoner to be released by name or nationality, also the circumstances of his capture were not made public.

About 300 other cases are still being reviewed.

The ACLU's latest disclosures about the prisoners' mistreatment were obtained under the Freedom of Information Act. The documents it obtained contained e-mails between FBI officials whose names the government removed before releasing them.

Several of those e-mails detailed and criticised various interrogation methods they say they witnessed at Guantanamo.

One of the emails, the writer said he witnessed "detainee sitting on the floor of the interview room with an Israeli flag draped around him, loud music being played and a strobe light flashing."

In another mail, the writer said that he witnessed more than once prisoners chained to the floor in a fetal position, with no food or water. They had often soiled themselves.

On one occasion, the mail described, the temperature in a room was lowered so much to the extent that the barefooted detainee shivered. In another incident, the room was so hot to the extent that a detainee was pulling out his hair before passing out.

Executive director of the ACLU Anthony Romero, said that the FBI documents continue to show the U.S. government was "torturing individuals in some instances" and reflects a major rift between FBI agents and the military over proper interrogation techniques.

"There was real concern within our law enforcement community about whether we are torturing individuals," Romero said.

An e-mail dated May 22 said that Bush personally signed off on harsher methods, which was denied by the White House.

Those techniques included sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation by forcing detainees to wear hoods, the use of military dogs and stress positions such as forced squatting for an extended period, the e-mail said.

"What the FBI agent wrote in the e-mail is wrong. There is no executive order on interrogation techniques," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said Monday. "Interrogation methods for military detainees are decisions made by the Department of Defense," an official said on condition of anonymity.

Most of the names in the documents released by the ACLU were blacked out. The name of the FBI author of the May 22 e-mail from Iraq was redacted, but the author was referred to as "On Scene Commander-Baghdad."

A June 25 FBI memo titled "URGENT REPORT" to the FBI director, provided details from someone "who observed serious physical abuses of civilian detainees" in Iraq.

"He described that such abuses included strangulation, beatings, placement of lit cigarettes into the detainees ear openings, and unauthorized interrogations," the document stated. The memo also mentioned "cover-up of these abuses."

Jameel Jaffer, an ACLU lawyer, said the documents made clear there was no question that prisoner abuse by U.S. forces "resulted from policies that were adopted by the highest levels of government." The administration denies this.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 08:31 am
dyslexia wrote:
um australia this is editon 7 the pages run well into the 1,000's


It seems I should have read you all's responses to australia before trying to fill up the pages. I am not sure I understand the technical way the pages are counted. To me when I look up there it seems to say 460. But I guess it does not matter.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 08:33 am
BTW--Merry Christmas to all... Smile
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 08:35 am
Laughing Merry Christmas everyone! If that's not getting it, click here and select the appropriate greeting from the list. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Dec, 2004 08:40 am
Yes Merry Christmas or whatever you prefer--I think everybody ought to get what they want for Christmas Smile--to everybody. Like Frank I'm cooking for a crowd who will start arriving tomorrow so will probably not be around much for several days. But whatever anyone's personal beliefs, the season is special and I wish you all nothing but happiness.
0 Replies
 
 

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