THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

When asked if he believed that women and men have equal rights, as Afghanistan's constitution states, Munib replied: "It's impossible. We are Muslims, and God has given a place for men and a place for women. We can't change that. Women don't have the same brains like men. They are very forgetful. They can't make big decisions. You should ask your own Western doctors about this. It has been proven that women are not like men."

In the 9/11 Commission report, notes 2:76 are a reference to chapter 2.5 in which the commission alleges ties between al Qaeda and Iraq, and concessions are made that to that date they had seen no evidence that these or the earlier contacts ever developed into a collaborative operational relationship[<<I agree that this is most probably true] --this would include harboring[<<I disagree. It most probably does not include harboring]--nor had they seen evidence indicating that Iraq cooperated with al Qaeda in developing or carrying out any attacks against the United States[<<I agree that this is most probably true]. The notes themselves refer to reports that explicitly state that Iraq's ties--this would include harboring[<<I disagree. This most probably does not include harboring]--to al-Qaeda are inconclusive, and to an al Qaeda operative who recanted much of his original information suggesting contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda regarding chemical weapons and explosives training[<<This most probably does not include harboring], and to two senior Bin Laden associates who further had adamantly denied any such ties[<<This most probably does not include harboring].

Main Entry: 2harbor
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): har·bored; har·bor·ing /-b(&-)ri[ng]/
transitive senses
1 a : to give shelter or refuge to b : to be the home or habitat of <the ledges still harbor rattlesnakes>; broadly : CONTAIN 2
2 : to hold especially persistently in the mind : CHERISH <harbored a grudge>
intransitive senses
1 : to take shelter in or as if in a harbor
2 : LIVE
- har·bor·er /-b&r-&r/ noun

Similar meetings between Iraqi officials and Bin Ladin or his aides may have occurred in 1999 during a period of some reported strains with the Taliban. According to the reporting, Iraqi officials offered Bin Ladin a safe haven in Iraq. Bin Ladin declined, apparently judging that his circumstances in Afghanistan remained more favorable than the Iraqi alternative. The reports describe friendly contacts and indicate some common themes in both sides' hatred of the United States. But to date we have seen no evidence that these or the earlier contacts ever developed into a collaborative operational relationship. Nor have we seen evidence indicating that Iraq cooperated with al Qaeda in developing or carrying out any attacks against the United States.76

To protect his own ties with Iraq, Turabi reportedly brokered an agreement that Bin Ladin would stop supporting activities against Saddam. Bin Ladin apparently honored this pledge, at least for a time, although he continued to aid a group of Islamist extremists operating in part of Iraq (Kurdistan) outside of Baghdad's control. In the late 1990s, these extremist groups suffered major defeats by Kurdish forces. In 2001, with Bin Ladin's help they re-formed into an organization called Ansar al Islam. There are indications that by then the Iraqi regime tolerated and may even have helped Ansar al Islam against the common Kurdish enemy.54

Now let me add one other fact. We asked a friendly security service to approach Baghdad about extraditing Zarqawi and providing information about him and his close associates. This service contacted Iraqi officials twice and we passed details that should have made it easy to find Zarqawi. The network remains in Baghdad. Zarqawi still remains at large, to come and go.

We all understand this fact, Ican, you don't need to waste our time or yours repeating it.

Here's a question - why aren't we being furnished with the figures of civilian casualties from the attack on Fallujah? We know(?)

Because they completely fake the civilian casualty figures to suit their needs....

In the rush, [AP photographer] Hussein left behind his camera lens and a satellite telephone for transmitting his images. His lens, marked with the distinctive AP logo, was discovered two days later by U.S. Marines next to a dead man's body in a house in Jolan.
AP colleagues in the Baghdad bureau, who by then had not heard from Hussein in 48 hours, became even more worried.

Hussein moved from house to house -- dodging gunfire -- and reached the river.

"I decided to swim ... but I changed my mind after seeing U.S. helicopters firing on and killing people who tried to cross the river."

He watched horrified as a family of five was shot dead as they tried to cross. Then, he "helped bury a man by the river bank, with my own hands."

"I kept walking along the river for two hours and I could still see some U.S. snipers ready to shoot anyone who might swim. I quit the idea of crossing the river and walked for about five hours through orchards."

Basically, you disagree with the parts of the report that contradict the case you are trying to make.

Why would Saddam have any reason to believe, or listen, to the US? OR Colin Powell? This does NOT follow logically that he was 'harboring' just because he was ignoring what we told him, surely you don't need me to point that out to you...

Cycloptichorn, you need to ease up with the use of facts there pal - otherwise you'll never get a response!

There is a large difference between what America stands for and what America does. As long as that difference exists, and especially when the two are getting farther and farther apart, I will continue to comment upon said fact.

You can call it whatever you like in your attempt to marginalize me, ridicule me, or whatever it is that you like to do. I don't mind.

Fallujah left crushed and charred

16.11.2004
By MICHAEL GEORGY and KIM SENGUPTA
After six days of intense combat against the Fallujah insurgents, United States warplanes, tanks and mortars have left a shattered landscape of gutted buildings, crushed cars and charred bodies.

A drive through the city shows a picture of utter destruction, with concrete houses flattened, mosques in ruins, telegraph poles down, power and phone lines hanging slack and rubble and human remains littering the empty streets.

The north-west Jolan district, once an insurgent stronghold, is a ghost town, the only sound the rumbling of tank tracks.

US Marines, accompanied by a Reuters correspondent, pointed their assault rifles down abandoned streets, past Fallujah's simple amusement park, now deserted. Four bloated and burned bodies lay on the main street, not far from US tanks and soldiers. The stench of the remains hung heavy in the air, mixing with the dust.

Another body lay stretched out on the next block, its head blown off.

Some bodies were so mutilated it was impossible to tell if they were civilians or militants, male or female.

Fallujah, regarded as a place with an independent streak where citizens even defied the former leader Saddam Hussein at times, seemed lifeless. The minarets of the city's dozens of mosques stood silent, no longer broadcasting the call to holy war.

Restaurant signs were covered in soot. Pavements were crushed by 60-tonne Abrams tanks, and rows of crumbling buildings stood on both sides of deserted streets.

Upmarket homes with garages looked as if they had been abandoned for years. Cars lay crushed in the middle of the street. Two Iraqis in one street desperately trying to salvage some of their smashed belongings were the only signs of life.

While US soldiers walked through neighbourhoods, their allies in the Iraqi forces casually moved along dusty streets past wires hanging down from gutted buildings. As a small convoy of Humvees moved back to position on the edge of the Jolan district, a rocket landed in the sand about 30m away, a reminder that militants were still out there somewhere, even if the city that harboured them has fallen.

Residents long without electricity or water had abandoned their homes and congregated in the centre of the city as the US forces advanced from all sides.

There was no sign of the guerrillas who had scribbled graffiti along the walls of the park, encouraging Fallujah's 300,000 residents to join a holy war against US-led troops. "Long live the mujahedin," read the graffiti.

Because they completely fake the civilian casualty figures to suit their needs...