Bernie's In

@engineer,

engineer wrote:

Not denying any of those previous posts, but I do believe (and have seen first hand) that people can be reached by transformational figures. I saw one rabid right winger convert completely over during the 2008 election cycle. Possibly Sanders was that figure here. It might all be an act, but it really doesn't matter. Whatever opinion Lash posts should stand alone. If we can't refute them, it really doesn't matter what she said in the past.

I don't quite understand you here. She "refutes" her own opinions from years past, but we're supposed to just disregard that she was equally as rabid and zealous in the complete opposite direction? She's credible because she says so?

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@snood,

Her opinions aren't predicated on her previous opinions. If she makes a valid point today and she was a raving lunatic yesterday, she still made a valid point today. That she is inconsistent is something we've known for a while, but if she makes a pro-Sanders argument and we can't refute it, then we can't refute it.

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@maporsche,

I dident have to go back. Even with my 80 year old memory I remembered Lash and her posts which is why I couldent believe she is a liberal.

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@ehBeth,

It's happening in Europe. I see it as a sort of modern version of the classic greeks' anacyclosis, a cyclical theory of political evolution from tyranny to oligarchy to democracy to mob-rule to tyranny again. In the modern version, democracy degenerates into plutocracy, the rule of the wealthy, which could in turn lead to mob rule, aka violent revolution.

Do the Canadians have some antidote against corruption?

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@snood,

I don't feel quite right analyzing someone behind their back, but, I apparently cant resist. Anyway, take Paul (whether one believe he was fictionalized or not the point remains) on the road to Damascus, he was a zealot in killing Christians before he saw Christ, he was zealot afterwards in the opposite direction and just as rabid in my own personal opinion. (never liked him, not saying I never liked Lash, I did and oddly enough, still do...)

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@engineer,

Who says we can't refute it? I think some have been doing a pretty darn good job.

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@revelette2,

Paul dident really change that much. He went from killing Christians to condemning them to hell if they dident believe just as he did.

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@RABEL222,

True, feel a little hot, like lightening is going to strike...jk

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@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

Who says we can't refute it? I think some have been doing a pretty darn good job.

No argument here. My point was that you shouldn't use an ad hominem attack to ignore an argument. The poster's past is not as relevant as the argument she puts forth.

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Does Hillary Clinton strong NY win mean we are acquiescing to a deficient new normal?
http://politicsdoneright.com/2016/04/young-people-fed-up-with-democrats-deficient-new-normal/

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

Her opinions aren't predicated on her previous opinions. If she makes a valid point today and she was a raving lunatic yesterday, she still made a valid point today. That she is inconsistent is something we've known for a while, but if she makes a pro-Sanders argument and we can't refute it, then we can't refute it.

I suppose there's some value in being able to argue both sides of a point convincingly.
Rich scumbag lawyers do it all the time.
We differ if you think her current arguments haven't been successfully refuted here.
And we differ if you think the ability to support both sides of an argument is necessarily laudable in itself.
I tend to be wary of someone that's wild eyed on both sides of the conservative/liberal divide. But that's just me.

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

revelette2 wrote:

Who says we can't refute it? I think some have been doing a pretty darn good job.

No argument here. My point was that you shouldn't use an ad hominem attack to ignore an argument. The poster's past is not as relevant as the argument she puts forth.

All fine and good engineer, and I agree wholeheartedly.

The vast majority of what she posts are just her opinions though (not arguments in the logical sense of the word), and I've found a boatload of completely opposite opinions.

I just found it interesting.

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@engineer,

I also did this to in part in response to Olivier5's post here:

http://able2know.org/topic/318451-2#post-6167931

Where he claims that Lash has been a liberal and that people's complaints about her are false (while also attempting to call me out as being some wolf in sheep's clothing).

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@snood,

One thing stayed true during her transformation though; she's still able to bring the level of discourse down into the gutter. She had just as much venom in her posts then as she does now.

I personally find it impossible to reconcile the shift from far right to far left.

It's almost like she's just changing her mind based on the mood of the country; she's following whomever is winning (or seems to have a chance of winning). She's a front runner.

I wonder why she's so hard on Clinton for her mildly shifting positions when her's have taken such a dramatic shift??

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lash was a Republican, but she had the good sense to learn and grow. Meanwhile, lots of a2kers may have regressed.

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@edgarblythe,

regressed = bored

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@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

I also did this to in part in response to Olivier5's post here:

http://able2know.org/topic/318451-2#post-6167931

Where he claims that Lash has been a liberal and that people's complaints about her are false (while also attempting to call me out as being some wolf in sheep's clothing).

I don't know what a liberal is, exactly. I said she was supporting Obama in 2008, which is perhaps more than i can say in confidence since i only saw a few of her posts.

And since we are now scrutinizing the ideological purity of a2kers, I did see one of yours though which stroke me. I could probably find it if asked. Posting on voting day, you were saying that you finally opted to vote for Obama after what looked like some soul-searching. You also said that you voted republican for all the state-level positions on the balot. You said you wanted some serious government deregulation and lesser gun control in your state... Didn't sound very "liberal" to me.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

maporsche wrote:

I also did this to in part in response to Olivier5's post here:

http://able2know.org/topic/318451-2#post-6167931

Where he claims that Lash has been a liberal and that people's complaints about her are false (while also attempting to call me out as being some wolf in sheep's clothing).

I don't know what a liberal is, exactly. I said she was supporting Obama in 2008, which is perhaps more than i can say in confidence since i only saw a few of her posts.

And since we are now scrutinizing the ideological purity of a2kers, I did see one of yours though which stroke me. I could probably find it if asked. Posting on voting day, you were saying that you finally opted to vote for Obama after what looked like some soul-searching. You also said that you voted republican for all the state-level positions on the balot. You said you wanted some serious government deregulation and lesser gun control in your state... Didn't sound very "liberal" to me.

I'm not going to be put into whatever little box you want to put me into. I've never claimed a particular label or agenda.

My views on individual issues has been pretty consistent over my life, although I've changed my mind on several things based on new information or just critical thinking. I support some conservative ideas. I support some liberal ones. I tend to align more with the democrats. I have voted for republican in the Illinois state races, because even Illinois republicans are pretty moderate (not to mention had zero chance of winning), and I think Illinois could use a little legislative gridlock. The supreme court allowing handguns in Chicago took care of my gun control worries.

If I don't sound liberal, it's because I'm not.

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@edgarblythe,

eyes in the beholder and all that

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@maporsche,

Right. Everybody can change. I hope you vote for more democrats in the incoming election.

1 Reply

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