80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 11:49 am
@korkamann,
korkamann wrote:

Quote:
None of which affects the fact that I'd still support her over a republican, but she creeps me out.


I understand where you're coming from. Because of Hillary's very closed personality, she gives the impression she is constantly on the defensive. I can understand her need to act this way; I remember the Clinton administration and the White Water scandal. This time, the political attacks seem staunchly aimed at her and there seemingly is no let-up. This is one of the reasons I admire Hillary. She is not wilting under the political attacks from the GOPers. She has her dedicated backers, and I believe in the finality, she will win.

I loathed seeing one person being attacked over and over and over. Like you, I would vote for Hillary before voting for a Republican candidate. One may not like her overly cautious attitude under questioning, but she will fight for the Democratic platform, and that's all I want from someone I vote for. For what it's worth, there is no such thing as the perfect candidate and they all are left wanting in one capacity or another. Hillary Clinton is the only person standing between the Republicans and the average American. I admire Sanders but feel he does not have the ground organization that Obama or Hillary has. It's one thing to have crowds come out to hear the man speak, but voting for him is a different scenario.


Amen!

I did not want her to run. I was hoping she wouldn't. I knew that the crap that would be thrown at her will dwarf the crap thrown at Bill Clinton and Barack Obama together.

But she is a tough woman...and she is going to stand her ground.

I understand what Snood and a couple others have said about the "feelings." It just doesn't happen that way for me. I admire her spunk...and quite honestly, I get a huge kick out of how much and easily she drives these American conservatives nuts.

In the end...I expect she will be our next president...and will be delighted that I voted for her.
korkamann
 
  1  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 12:15 pm
@Ragman,
Ragman wrote:

Quote:
I admire Sanders but feel he does not have the ground organization that Obama or Hillary has.


In the beginning , Obama (and his nascent organization) while running his first campaign, took time to develop what it eventually took to get elected. Can't Sanders develop this over the next 16 months?


Yes, you are correct of course. Yet, that is not Sanders only problem. It is true Sanders is making quite an impression, and I must admit, he has succeeded beyond my wildest expectations, but between the "GOP proper" [I believe Sanders is now a Democrat?...I'll have to google this.] and the Democratic candidate, Hillary, Bernie Sanders is almost an afterthought and even though in a couple of polls he has surpassed Clinton, the Democratic Party doesn't seem to be embracing him; it's as if he's a fringe candidate and not a part of the whole. I must admit, I'm a little surprised at his continued growth in appealing to such large numbers of Americans and his tug on many American's imaginations. As you infer we still have miles to go until an answer to the Sanders question will be forthcoming.
korkamann
 
  1  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 12:17 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

In the end...I expect she will be our next president...and will be delighted that I voted for her.


Touché!
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 12:23 pm
@korkamann,
korkamann wrote:
the Democratic Party doesn't seem to be embracing him


that's not exactly a downside for Sanders

part of his appeal to people who support him appears to be his distance from the traditional party leadership

it's similar to what's happening with Trump on the other side


___


it's a bit odd, as for a long time it seemed that a big complaint about Ms. Clinton was that she hadn't sucked up enough to old-school Democrats and that's why she'd failed as a candidate in the past. now she's accused of being too far on the inside.

I'm not a fan of hers but she really doesn't seem to be able to win with the party machine ... too far away .... oops ... too close

hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 12:48 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
now she's accused of being too far on the inside.

You cant get anymore inside than being the only candidate from the party.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 01:21 pm
@korkamann,
Quote:
I believe Sanders is now a Democrat?...I'll have to google this.]

Yes, of course, Bernie Sanders is a Democrat..now. While in VT, in the '70s, he ran and was elected as a member of the Liberty Union party. In the '80s -'90s through the 2010s, he ran and won VT elections as an Independent, as recently as 2012.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 01:38 pm
@Ragman,
Ragman wrote:

Quote:
I believe Sanders is now a Democrat?...I'll have to google this.]

Yes, of course, Bernie Sanders is a Democrat..now. While in VT, in the '70s, he ran and was elected as a member of the Liberty Union party. In the '80s -'90s through the 2010s, he ran and won VT elections as an Independent, as recently as 2012.



Wiki says he is an independent, which I think is correct. He caucuses with the D's but that does not make him a D.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 01:41 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
You don’t change the system from within the Democratic Party.”
“My own feeling is that the Democratic Party is ideologically bankrupt.”

“We have to ask ourselves, ‘Why should we work within the Democratic Party if we don’t agree with anything the Democratic Party says?’”
Bernie Sanders, everybody—the same Bernie Sanders who is running to become the Democratic Party’s candidate for president of the United States.
The most surprising thing about the independent Vermont senator’s surprisingly successful campaign so far is not that he’s doing it as a self-described democratic socialist. It’s that he’s seeking the nomination of a party he caucuses with in the Senate but is not a part of, isn’t a registered member of and has never been a registered member of—a party he’s spent his 40-year career beating at the polls and battering in the press.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/bernie-sanders-2016-democrats-121181#ixzz3knhklIsY
0 Replies
 
korkamann
 
  1  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 01:48 pm
Sanders has drawn large crowds to his rallies, but it remains to be seen whether he can convert that energy and his low-dollar donor base into a sturdy organization for the early states and beyond.

Senator Bernie Sanders problems might be his not getting enough endorsements. Hillary sent a message to Biden that she had quite a number of prominent endorsements racked up and many already committed....though many endorsers have been known to change their minds like in 2008 when they switched from Hillary to Barack. The Democratic core base seem poised to nominate Hillary which might be a difficult climb for Sanders. There have been Political revolutions before and this could happen again; this is what it will take for Sanders to unseat Clinton. One of the reasons the Dem Party hasn't seemed to reach out to Bernie as someone Hillary should fear, is because he's an admitted Socialist. The US is a Capitalist Republic, not a Socialist Republic. To implement Sanders' platform would mean raising taxes on the rich, Universal health care for all, increase in Social Security, and expansion of Medicare etc. Sanders program would overhaul the entire economic system and many Dems along with Republicans would be howling because of higher taxes. Senator Ted Cruz shut down the government over Obama's Affordable Care Act, which btw, at the time, was already the law of the land. If Sanders perchance captured the Oval Office, I imagine the government would shut down for about six months!
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 02:01 pm
@korkamann,
Quote:
Senator Bernie Sanders problems might be his not getting enough endorsements.

You are not in kansas anymore, endorsements can no longer be assumed to be a plus.
korkamann
 
  1  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 02:20 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:

You are not in kansas anymore, endorsements can no longer be assumed to be a plus.


Most of these endorsements will make up the electorate, those endorsers who will elect the president. But you're correct in that nothing can be taken for granted until the fat lady sings. I've been amazed at Donald Trump's staying power and with Ben Carson eclipsing him occasionally. But for a certainty, neither Trump or Carson will be the next president.
parados
 
  3  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 02:23 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

korkamann wrote:
the Democratic Party doesn't seem to be embracing him


that's not exactly a downside for Sanders





It does end up being a down side.

794 of the 4,047 delegates to the Democratic national convention are super delegates who are party insiders. The democratic faithful tend to vote for those that have been devoted to the party. While Sanders has a liberal agenda he has not been a member of the party. Unless Sanders wins an overwhelming majority of the primaries causing super delegates to decide to back him, it is unlikely he will get much support there. As one story recently said, Hillary is 40% to the nomination if she can simply tie up the super delegates.

While some may call it a conspiracy, any convention will result in boos and bad feelings for those that don't agree to abide by an endorsement process or agree to follow the party line. The party tends to come first for those heavily involved in politics. The super delegates are very beholden to the party.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 02:36 pm
Hillary's current argument that she was careless about setting up her communication system is a FAIL.

Still she not apologize, though we have now gotten a non apology apology.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 02:49 pm
@Ragman,
He's not a D. He has to run on a major party ticket. He's a D Socialist.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 02:51 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

He's not a D. He has to run on a major party ticket. He's a D Socialist.


Just when I thought it couldn't get any weirder!
Lash
 
  0  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 02:54 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You knew that. What's weird is you trying to act like a progressive. What are you, really? Republican Lite. Clinton is a Goldwater Girl - and so are you.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 02:54 pm
@hawkeye10,
precisely
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 02:57 pm
@korkamann,
Nah. Still feel wonderful... I think YOU might have a problem.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 02:58 pm
@korkamann,
korkamann wrote:

Quote:

You are not in kansas anymore, endorsements can no longer be assumed to be a plus.


Most of these endorsements will make up the electorate, those endorsers who will elect the president.


nope

the endorsements have to do with the party - not the electorate

the party may select the candidate, but they have to be careful they don't piss off actual voters who will show up

with ongoing poll movement, there's no telling what could happen

some interesting moments though a bit boring in comparison to the swift movement we get in national elections up here

elections called - and it's considered an overly long campaign because it's 11 weeks start to finish
ehBeth
 
  3  
Fri 4 Sep, 2015 03:01 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

ehBeth wrote:

korkamann wrote:
the Democratic Party doesn't seem to be embracing him


that's not exactly a downside for Sanders





It does end up being a down side.


given the number of American voters who appear to be totally pissed off with the American politics party mechanism, I think the old playbook may need a rewrite
 

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