80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
parados
 
  3  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 06:31 am
@Builder,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

You might want to educate yourself.
DrewDad
 
  3  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 06:47 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Then any and all of your criticisms (past and future) of a Republican president for a shortage of virtue, are hereby rendered meaningless.

Correct?

You're the one insisting that Clinton needs to be a paragon of virtue and perfectly transparent, not me.

I expect people to have feet of clay, and I make allowances for it.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  4  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 07:08 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
This nesting is getting tedious, but:


DrewDad wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

And if you remember the fable, eventually the boy was eaten by a wolf.

And if we're to carry this metaphor to it's conclusion, the village survives....
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

So no worries if she's a corrupt liar as long as the village survives?

You're arguing your assumptions as givens, now, and you're not even sticking with the metaphor, in an attempt to score cheap points.

The Republican party has been yapping about "the Clinton's are so corrupt!" for 20 years, now, with nothing to show for it but a bunch of money wasted on witch hunt investigations that went nowhere. It's just background noise, now. The GOP has become the butt of their own joke, at this point. You can't even satirize it, because reality is stupider than anyone could have imagined.

DrewDad wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Given her power, her influence and her time-tested defensive approach of stone-walling, lies, destruction of evidence etc, it's not surprising that she hasn't had to pay for her sins.

That is called begging the question. If she's guilty of destruction of evidence, why hasn't she been successfully prosecuted for it? Your unsubstantiated claims of her utter corruption does not compel me to believe the same.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Which question was that?

"Begging the question" is pretty well known, and if you don't know it you can look it up. You're either too stupid to understand, too lazy to look it up, or lying that you don't know what I mean. Which is it?

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Are you really arguing that every guilty party is eventually prosecuted and convicted?

Rolling Eyes
20 years of investigations. Zero indictments, let alone a conviction. She's either a fricking genius, in which case I want her as President, or she's not guilty, in which case there's no impediment to her being President.

DrewDad wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Even you can't seriously argue that she has been entirely transparent when charged with misdeeds.

"Entirely transparent" is a pretty unreachable standard. Has any president or presidential nominee ever been "entirely transparent?"

Name one.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
So again, because other presidential candidates haven't been entirely transparent, it's A-OK that Clinton isn't either? Are you setting a marker here than you don't care about governmental transparency?

So one must either demand perfect transparency or be a dupe? Huh.

Interestingly, I seem to run into this most often when I talk to Republicans. They accuse liberals of being pie-in-the-sky idealists while having these black-and-white views. I'm sorry that the real world isn't as reductive as you want it to be.

It's actually this complete lack of nuance that upset me the most about George W. Bush. I could deal with his buffoonery, and avoiding service in Vietnam, and his social gaffes, and even making decisions I disagreed with. But he seemed to have no real curiosity.
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 07:11 am
@nimh,
He uses what he needs and ignores the rest. He's not a debater, he's an editor.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  3  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 07:14 am
@DrewDad,
Quote:
You're arguing your assumptions as givens, now,

The Right really has developed this sense of "we've been accusing the Clintons for over 20 years now, so there must be something to it". It's a little like the conspiracy theorists on YouTube, many of them Russian, who claim that Sandy Hook was just a hoax to get America to pass gun legislation. As evidence they use the other things America has done which they call "false flag operations" which of course they haven't been able to prove either, that America stages "false flag operations" like Sandy Hook.
snood
 
  3  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 07:22 am
@Blickers,
What do you think about the latest attack they're trying to mount - that Hillary is sickly and frail?
bobsal u1553115
 
  4  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 07:25 am
@snood,
Quote:
Re: Blickers (Post 6247996)
What do you think about the latest attack they're trying to mount - that Hillary is sickly and frail?


Cuz it was the only thing left they hadn't tried yet?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  4  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 07:46 am
@snood,
I guess the best response is to point out that tough ole "manly" Trump is being beaten by a sick, frail girl.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  3  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 07:56 am
@snood,
Quote snood:
Quote:
What do you think about the latest attack they're trying to mount - that Hillary is sickly and frail?

I don't really know what to say about it, so far they only have one tiny clip of something that looks a bit out of the ordinary. My basic take on it is that Trump carrying out Putin's foreign policy is such a danger to the US and the Free World that Hillary's health-if indeed there is an issue there-is secondary. Worst case scenario, we have Kaine to step in, support NATO instead of installing Putin's foreign policy as our own, and who will therefore be far better than Trump.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 10:12 am
She seems to be doing well in states I didn't think she had a chance in because of the coal issue and her statement about it.

Trump unpopularity fuels wide lead for Clinton in new Virginia poll

Quote:
Hillary Clinton holds a commanding lead over Donald Trump in Virginia, with disdain for the Republican presidential nominee helping Clinton overcome her own vulnerabilities, a new Washington Post poll finds.

Clinton leads Trump by a 14-point margin — 52 percent to 38 percent — among registered voters in the state and by an eight-point margin among likely voters, 51 percent to 43 percent. Clinton’s edge dips to seven points among likely voters when third-party candidates are included.

Aside from the rural southwestern part of the state, Clinton’s lead spans all regions, most by a wide margin. She trounces Trump among minority voters, and slashes the advantage Republicans usually count on among whites in Virginia.

The results suggest how difficult it could be for the GOP nominee to win what had been considered a crucial swing state. Virginia had gone red for presidential candidates for decades until Barack Obama broke the streak in 2008 and won it again in 2012. With its changing demographics, especially in the fast-growing suburbs around Washington, the state may not even be competitive for Trump.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 10:19 am
@DrewDad,
This debate is getting tedious.

I can't convince you she is unqualified to be president.

There is a cynicism in her supporters that is troubling, but so be it.
parados
 
  5  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 10:32 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
This hasn't been a debate.

A debate would be both sides presenting facts to support their case. What we have here is you presenting an opinion and others asking you for facts to support it which you have declined to do. Now it seems that you are upset that your lack of facts has failed to convince us.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 10:39 am
@revelette2,
I'm a bit confused. Both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump cannot be trusted, and they're the two people running for president.

Quote:
Clinton said she “fully complied with every rule that I was governed by” in preserving her emails. But department policy says all “correspondence and memorandums on substantive U.S. foreign policy issues” should be retained “at the end of the Secretary’s tenure or sooner.” Clinton left office Feb. 1, 2013; she gave her emails to the department on Dec. 5, 2014. The department’s Office of Inspector General in a May 26 report confirmed that “Clinton should have surrendered all [work-related] emails” before leaving government and, by not doing so, “she did not comply” with the Federal Records Act.

Clinton claimed the “vast majority of my work emails went to government employees at their government addresses, which meant they were captured and preserved immediately” by the State Department. The department’s IG report said that is “not an appropriate method of preserving any such emails that would constitute a Federal record.”


According to Politifact, Donald Trump lies 91% of the time.

Why don't we have better choices in this country?
Baldimo
 
  1  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 10:45 am
@parados,
You mean like the time she landed under sniper fire?
Baldimo
 
  2  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 10:48 am
@cicerone imposter,
That coming from the same guy who laughed when Romney said Russia was a treat to national security. Now there are many posters in this very forum who can't stop talking about how bad Russia is, the threat they pose.
parados
 
  2  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 10:50 am
@Baldimo,
She told a story she shouldn't have. She apologized. She wasn't the first to do that. She won't be the last. The fact that she admitted her mistake and apologized puts her ahead of many others who refuse to even admit they said something outrageously wrong in spite of facts.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 10:53 am
@Baldimo,
You have to prove what I said about Romney and Russia.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 10:56 am
@snood,
snood wrote:

What do you think about the latest attack they're trying to mount - that Hillary is sickly and frail?


It's a fall-back position now that their other attacks have come up mostly dry. Also quite expected as they do this pretty much every cycle.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  2  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 10:57 am
@parados,
How about when she said she only had 1 cell phone? The ecusses you guys accept from her is laughable. If there is a glimmer of hope that she can spin out of something you guys accept it. It's no wonder she has the lowest approval rating out of any Dem candidate. You guys would be doing this country a favor and work towards getting Gary Johnson elected. Everyone should be working towards a 3rd party candidate, it doesn't even have to be Johnson, as the major parties have become laughable.
Baldimo
 
  2  
Tue 16 Aug, 2016 10:58 am
@cicerone imposter,
You weren't part of the laughing and high fiving crowd when Obama was being snarky with Romney?
 

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