When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

"Entirely transparent" is a pretty unreachable standard. Has any president or presidential nominee ever been "entirely transparent?"

Name one.

George Washington.

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

And if you remember the fable, eventually the boy was eaten by a wolf.

The boy in this instance is the GOP, so I'm comfortable with that result.

Quote:

Given her power, her influence and her time-tested defensive approach of stone-walling, lies, destruction of evidence etc, it's not surprising that she hasn't had to pay for her sins.

Even you can't seriously argue that she has been entirely transparent when charged with misdeeds.

From a Realpolitik angle, you have to admire her ability to outfox those who try to trip her up as much as you would her not being accused of corruption in the first place.

As for her transparency, I make no bones about the fact that she is a standard politician in that area, who obfuscates as a matter of practice. I simply don't care, because our society has made it abundantly clear that they don't care, either. Politicians from both sides of the fence regularly engage in activities that large-ish segments of our society consider questionable, and yet, suffer little to no political price for doing so.

In Clinton's defense, you'd be guarded too if you were her, considering the number of times she's been unfairly attacked for something anodyne. If you can't catch a break on your normal activities, what would make you think you'd catch one on your relatively shady activities?

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

Reason, did you notice this was a Fox news plant? Who in their right mind pays any attention to a Fox news plant?

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

You don't seem to remember that it is the GOP that has continually cried wolf about Hillary. It isn't Hillary that is in the process of being eaten.

0 Replies

@DrewDad,

Hillary won't be entirely transparent according to people like Finn until she confesses to all the crimes they don't have enough evidence to convict her of.

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Well, at least you're not trying to argue she has nothing to hide and has never tried to.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

And if you remember the fable, eventually the boy was eaten by a wolf.

And if we're to carry this metaphor to it's conclusion, the village survives....

So no worries if she's a corrupt liar as long as the village survives?

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Given her power, her influence and her time-tested defensive approach of stone-walling, lies, destruction of evidence etc, it's not surprising that she hasn't had to pay for her sins.

That is called begging the question. If she's guilty of destruction of evidence, why hasn't she been successfully prosecuted for it? Your unsubstantiated claims of her utter corruption does not compel me to believe the same.

Which question was that?

Are you really arguing that every guilty party is eventually prosecuted and convicted?

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Even you can't seriously argue that she has been entirely transparent when charged with misdeeds.

"Entirely transparent" is a pretty unreachable standard. Has any president or presidential nominee ever been "entirely transparent?"

Name one.

So again, because other presidential candidates haven't been entirely transparent, it's A-OK that Clinton isn't either? Are you setting a marker here than you don't care about governmental transparency?

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

Then any and all of your criticisms (past and future) of a Republican president for a shortage of virtue, are hereby rendered meaningless.

Correct?

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Who among us has nothing to hide? Especially when you can get in trouble for perfectly ordinary or non-objectionable things. When that happens often enough - and I think you'd agree that Hillary has in fact been attacked for MANY things that aren't wrong in the slightest, but have been made out to be - you start hiding everything as a defense mechanism.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Not all of us decide to run for president, and what we each have to hide differs in importance dramatically.

2 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Okay, I agree with that. But what has Hillary done that disqualifies her?

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Fine with me, but now we're reduced to pretty subjective value judgements.

I always wonder what folks think the resulting danger of her so-called corruption would be, and what more, how it would be distinguishable from past administrations. In order to say that she's meaningfully and perhaps disqualifying-ly corrupt, shouldn't one be able to describe or envision that? And yet, I very rarely see that even attempted. It's just a nebulous cloud of fear put forth, which isn't convincing to those who aren't already ideologically predisposed to think unkindly of her in the first place.

I'll say that I don't envy any Conservatives this cycle and I actually feel very badly for all you sincere ones out there, because Trump is a disaster and you have to know that. Hard to even say it but I think Jeb would be running stronger vs. Hillary at this point.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

Trump is more than a disaster. He's responsible for splitting the party. When was the last time a candidate split the party like Trump?

Trump also made sure no Independent would vote republican this round. He has no respect for veterans or their families, women, or the handicapped.

That Trump still garners support from "Americans" is an amazing thing to me.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

How about putting her own personal interests above those of the nation's?

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Two questions result from that supposition:

First, what do you suppose that would even look like? What are her 'personal interests?'

Second, if she was more focused on advancing her personal interests than those of the nation - why did she spend all this time and effort bothering to run for Prez? I mean, let's be honest, she and Bill are the most famous and likely most powerful living couple in the world. There is no real cap to the amount of personal wealth that they can generate simply through their own personas, as has been aptly demonstrated these last few years. Her family is wealthy and her extended family is wealthy, so I can't imagine money is a motivator. I'd like to know what interest you think would be served on her part, that would be worth the quite obvious sacrifices that she and all presidential candidates make, to speak nothing of the difficulties of the job itself.

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/michelle-obama-democrat-convention-speech/2016/07/25/id/740440/

Quote:

Taking a shot at Trump's signature "Make America Great Again," Obama said, "don't let anyone ever tell you that this country isn't great, that somehow we need to make it great again because this right now is the greatest country on Earth."

I would like for Trump to mention a greater country.

We are the richest, most powerful, on this planet. And we represent only 5% of the world population.

Also, "There are as many cultures in the United States as their are in the world, as the United States is the place of a some form of acceptance for all cultures and ethnic people. In retrospect, the United States has just one culture. The culture of variety."
How many cultures are there in the US - Answers.com

That's not already great?

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Hey, if you're content with making all sort of excuses, rationalizations, and disclaimers for their corruption, fine. Stop trying to get me to agree with you.

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

I would like for Trump to mention a greater country.

The Dems seem to mention all sort of countries that they think are better than the US. Bernie ran a whole campaign for President based on that assumption. When mentioned how great the US is, the liberals and the Dems easily point to other countries as better. It seems to them the only thing we are good at is doing things wrong. Based on that how can you guys think the US is great?

3 Replies

@Baldimo,

Show me.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Haha, I can't imagine you think I'd expect that. Instead, the exercise is intended to show the true underpinnings of the 'she's corrupt!' argument, which is: nothing. Nothing at all. Opponents of hers have never been able to actually build a logical and persuasive argument as to why she would be particularly corrupt, what would motivate her to do so, and why a voter should consider this to be a decision point.

It's simply another instance of the Smear. It's the same thing Bernie-bots did to her in the primaries. An emotional argument, not a logical one. That's fine with me (we all make them from time to time) but it goes a long way towards explaining why your fellow citizens aren't persuaded by the argument.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know