80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
DrewDad
 
  3  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 11:19 am
@Blickers,
We need a word for this kind of thinking. Kinda like truthiness, but for something that seems or feels like a scandal, but isn't.

"Truthiness" " the quality of seeming or being felt to be true, even if not necessarily true."

"Scandaliciousness?"
parados
 
  5  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 11:22 am
@oralloy,
Wow.
Of the majority that were classified, Hillary did not send them nor was she the lone recipient but was copied on email exchanges between others.

Those emails were found on the State Department servers after being backed up from other people. For you to claim she was hiding them is complete nonsense. Hillary has said she fully expected they were all archived by others and thus searchable for FOIA requests.

Hillary did NOT knowingly and recklessly do that according to investigators. In fact they said they can't begin to meet that standard of knowingly required by the law.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  5  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 11:25 am
@oralloy,
Quote:

That's nice. Was it just a coincidence then that the classification notification just happened to be missing from ALL of the secret and top secret emails that showed up on Hillary's unsecured server?

So now you are arguing that Clinton was responsible for the actions of others?
When you receive what I wrote on your computer, do you instantly assume you wrote it? Are you that out of touch with reality?
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 11:26 am
@snood,
Sure I can, ask an old person if they are for a more secure border. If they say yes, then they are an old racist and their opinion is ignored. Basically if their opinion comes down on the right side of the isle they are ignored, except when SS or Medicare are the subject. Then politicians of the left are all ears with the old folks. We saw a similar thing with the Brexit vote. It was the old racist white people...
parados
 
  4  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 11:27 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
There is also a movement to get Hillary's closest advisers (who she would have wanted to have advising her in the White House if she wins) stripped of their security clearance. That movement has a much greater chance of succeeding.

No, it doesn't have a greater chance of succeeding. There is a little thing called the US Constitution that says Congress can't write laws to punish people after the fact.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 11:28 am
@Baldimo,
Quote:
We saw a similar thing with the Brexit vote. It was the old racist white people...


Anybody see the contradiction here? LOL
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  6  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 11:29 am
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Sure I can, ask an old person if they are for a more secure border. If they say yes, then they are an old racist and their opinion is ignored. Basically if their opinion comes down on the right side of the isle they are ignored, except when SS or Medicare are the subject. Then politicians of the left are all ears with the old folks. We saw a similar thing with the Brexit vote. It was the old racist white people...


What are you talking about??

I would like a more secure border (and you'd classify me as a liberal). Most American's want a more secure border (liberals included).

What I don't want is 11 million people deported and a 40ft border wall built.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  4  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 11:37 am
@Baldimo,
Perfect example. You can ask a retired person their opinion on immigration, go ahead. And there's nothing wrong with them having an opinion on immigration either. But if that old person does not have a big, big retirement income saved up, and if they let themselves get carried away by the right wing radio jocks screaming about invasions and buidling walls and so they vote for the Republican Party with all their schemes to turn Social Security and Medicare into "means-tested" welfare plans, then that old person is nuts.

Anybody who votes for a candidate who is going to try to pull the rug out from underneath them financially is crazy. How's that?
Baldimo
 
  0  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 12:28 pm
@Blickers,
This is another great lie told to old people to get their votes. A majority of the changes that would be made wouldn't effect the current batch of people who collect on those programs. Every bill put forth said no changes to current payouts and only a change for people such as me who are still at least 15 20 years out from collecting.

The Dems want old people to be single issue voters, if they raise any other issues, the Dems start talking about the GOP wanting to take away their retirement.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 01:09 pm
@Baldimo,
I agree. Progressives by definition are looking for "perfect" administrative/bureaucratic/governmental "solutions" to social & economic problems. In order to do their calculations they must assume they know the wants & needs of various groups of people. That need also fits their self conceptions - i.e. that they (alone) know what's good for everyone else. So it becomes necessary, convenient and even self-fulfilling for them to claim to know what every group in their taxonomy of the moment really wants. Unfortunately as history shows they are usually wrong; their "solution" doesn't work; and individual human behavior yields unprerdicted outcomes. No problem that is merely the starting point for yet another "progressive" program.

glitterbag
 
  4  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 02:10 pm
@georgeob1,
What I find interesting George, is that many people feel the same way about Neo-cons. I think it's lazy to assume that anyone can be put in such a box, I don't like it when liberals accuse conservatives of those sentiments and I bristle when I hear someone try to explain to me what I believe in. You don't know what I believe in and I reject your narrow definitions. I would not attempt to describe your personal views despite what you write here. I'm sure you know many people who are good citizens despite their party affiliation. Of course I'm basing that on the people I've known. We may not always support the same candidate, but I will not call you dishonest or greedy or deluded on the basis of who you support in an election.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 02:25 pm
@blatham,
Blame it on the supreme court. Their the ones who declared it political commentary and said its legal. None have to prove the truth of what they claim on the air.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 02:42 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
If the document is not marked classified, Hillary would not know it is classified, and if she wants to send the document along to someone else in her department, which is likely, that person would be on the government Email system and therefore a copy is automatically made as soon as Hillary sends it to them.

But if the document isn't marked classified when Hillary gets it, obviously Hillary cannot be held responsible for knowing it is classified, can she? No, she cannot.


Here is an excerpt from the FBI guy. I bolded parts of it:

Quote:
For example, seven e-mail chains concern matters that were classified at the Top Secret/Special Access Program level when they were sent and received. These chains involved Secretary Clinton both sending e-mails about those matters and receiving e-mails from others about the same matters. There is evidence to support a conclusion that any reasonable person in Secretary Clinton’s position, or in the position of those government employees with whom she was corresponding about these matters, should have known that an unclassified system was no place for that conversation. In addition to this highly sensitive information, we also found information that was properly classified as Secret by the U.S. Intelligence Community at the time it was discussed on e-mail (that is, excluding the later “up-classified” e-mails).

None of these e-mails should have been on any kind of unclassified system, but their presence is especially concerning because all of these e-mails were housed on unclassified personal servers not even supported by full-time security staff, like those found at Departments and Agencies of the U.S. Government—or even with a commercial service like Gmail.

Separately, it is important to say something about the marking of classified information. Only a very small number of the e-mails containing classified information bore markings indicating the presence of classified information. But even if information is not marked “classified” in an e-mail, participants who know or should know that the subject matter is classified are still obligated to protect it.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b.-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clintons-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system



Blickers wrote:
No wonder this Email thing is on its last legs as far as the public caring about it.

I remind you again of the impeachment scandal. The Democrats succeeded in placing Bill Clinton above the law. But then Al Gore lost an election that he should have won by a landslide considering the state of the 1990s economy.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 02:44 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
oralloy wrote:
There is also a movement to get Hillary's closest advisers (who she would have wanted to have advising her in the White House if she wins) stripped of their security clearance. That movement has a much greater chance of succeeding.

No, it doesn't have a greater chance of succeeding. There is a little thing called the US Constitution that says Congress can't write laws to punish people after the fact.

No one is trying to pass any law here. It is merely a move to strip Hillary's closest advisers of their security clearance so that they are barred from advising her in the White House if she manages to get elected.

I assess the chances of success as being quite reasonable.
oralloy
 
  0  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 02:45 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:
We need a word for this kind of thinking. Kinda like truthiness, but for something that seems or feels like a scandal, but isn't.

"Truthiness" " the quality of seeming or being felt to be true, even if not necessarily true."

"Scandaliciousness?"

How about "Liberals thinking that the rules never apply to them."?
parados
 
  2  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 03:05 pm
@oralloy,
How can Congress strip the security clearance of anyone in the Executive branch without passing a law?
There is that little thing called the US Constitution that you seem to keep ignoring. It lays out that there are 3 branches and only gives Congress oversight, not the power to dictate anything to the executive branch other than through passing a law.
parados
 
  2  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 03:08 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:


How about "Liberals thinking that the rules never apply to them."?

Says the guy that thinks a Conservative Congress can strip people of their security clearance simply on a whim without following the US Constitution.

Don't the rules apply to Conservatives in your world?
georgeob1
 
  0  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 03:09 pm
@glitterbag,
I think the basic issue here is one of individual freedom vs government run social & economic systems - and where to draw the line. Progressives tend to look more toward government managed solutions to such issues, and conservatives more towards individual choice. Some such systems are always necessary, but my preference leans toward freedom and individual choice in doubtful or arguable cases. Some progressives appear to want a government run solution to almost all problems.

My reasons arise from my view of the complexity of human nature and the ability of people over time to corrupt even the best designed administrative systems in pursuit of their perceived self-interest. This is the usual cause of the generally unanticipated side effects which corrupt their intended purpose and require endless adjustments and Bandaids and perpetual bureaucratic growth.

Note that I have not termed anyone as either dishonest or greedy here. Instead I have stated my belief and the reasons for it. I agree there is far too little tolerance afoot in contemporary discorse and politics. Tolerance is a very good word and concept. We see far too little of it. It means you don't have to approve of or like the views, habits, actions of others, but you do leave them alone and let them do as they wish. Live and let live.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 03:24 pm
@georgeob1,
I believe capitalism and socialism are necessary for any culture to have a healthy culture and have progress.

Education and universal health care should be free. As for electives, it should be based on a sliding scale.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Tue 12 Jul, 2016 03:24 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
How can Congress strip the security clearance of anyone in the Executive branch without passing a law?

Who says Congress will be the one to do it? The idea is to use the normal already-existing manner of stripping people of their security clearance.
 

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