80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
parados
 
  5  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 07:13 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Um.. the FOIA can NOT be used to request personal emails. The fact that the courts and FBI aren't agreeing with the group submitting the FOIA is because the law is such.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 10:36 am
http://www.vox.com/2016/4/25/11505126/poll-hillary-clinton-donald-trump

Quote:
Young voters have overwhelmingly backed Bernie Sanders throughout the Democratic primary, leading to endless speculation that Hillary Clinton will face a big "millennial problem" come November.

A new poll out today, however, suggests that Clinton would do more than just fine with young people in a general election. Clinton leads Donald Trump by a whopping 36 points among people ages 18 to 29, according to a Harvard Institute of Politics study released on Monday.


snip

Quote:
Clinton's huge advantage over Trump in the youth vote extends to both genders, among blacks, Latinos, and Caucasians, and among both Democrats and independents.

Perhaps most encouraging for the Democratic frontrunner: Clinton's support among youth voters doesn't appear dependent on getting matched up against Trump. In fact, Clinton only performs about 8 points better against Trump than she does against a "generic Republican" candidate, according to Harvard's poll.


snip

Quote:
Trump's brand is toxic to young people in a way we haven't seen in a long time. The Harvard poll of Trump versus Clinton would put Trump's support among young people lower than that of any other Republican presidential candidate since modern exit polls began in 1972, according to CNN.

Trump may still beat Clinton among young Republicans. But this poll suggests that Trump is so disliked by young Republicans that some of them may sit out the election altogether.


snip

Quote:
While Clinton leads Trump among young voters, they still overwhelmingly name Bernie Sanders as their favorite candidate.

Over the course of the primary, of course, that's hurt Clinton mightily. But as Max Ehrenfreund points out at the Washington Post, this poll suggests that Sanders has brought young people into the fold of the Democratic Party — a trend that could ultimately help Clinton in 2016.


Quote:
This is very good news for the Democrats: Thanks to a well-known political science phenomenon known as "generational imprinting," voters tend to form relatively rigid partisan identities in their early 20s that they then carry through life.

Of course, new events can lead them to change their minds. But if political science is any indication, this new wave of young Democrats is likely to keep their allegiance to the party well into adulthood — possibly shifting the center of gravity in the American political system.


snip

Quote:
it's impossible to know how much Bernie's popularity and rhetoric accounts for this change, and how much of it would be happening even if he hadn't taken the national stage by storm. But the Harvard pollsters who conducted the study think that Sanders's campaign has both tapped into this shift and pushed it along itself, according to the Washington Post.

From the perspective of a Clinton White House, this creates the thrilling possibility of a durable Democratic majority. But the data also suggest that, if young voters continue to adopt positions more in line with Sanders's, the 2016 primary contest may just be a preview of battles within the Democratic Party for years to come.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 10:39 am
I usually don't care for Salon but ...

http://www.salon.com/2016/04/26/what_everybody_missed_about_charles_kochs_endorsement_of_hillary_clinton/
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 10:57 am
For some reason when I follow links or just some sites, all the ads and scripts (don't really know what that is) interfere with reading said articles. What I read at the top half was really interesting. I noticed a few headlines off to the side. I am getting kind of sad about Bill Clinton, he seems to be loosing it.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  4  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:05 am
@bobsal u1553115,


The Young Turks have completely gone over to Bernie, now they just criticize Hillary for everything. I don't see anything wrong with Hillary's answer, in 2008 she was closer in votes to Obama than Bernie is to her, yet when she conceded she threw her support behind Obama without holding out for "conditions". I see nothing wrong with Hillary expecting, and getting, the same respect she showed Obama when she lost the primary race.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:27 am
@Blickers,
There are three problems with that Blickers.

1) In 2008 Obama gave Hillary quite a bit for her support including a plumb speaking role in the convention, a prime cabinet position and strong establishment support this year. Hillary was well compensated for the "respect" she showed Obama.

2) This is not about Bernie Sanders, it is about Bernie's supporters. You may see nothing wrong with her answer, but try to look at it from the perspective of these young progressive voters. If you are having trouble doing this, then watch this clip again... the Young Turks represent these voters.

3) You have this whole democratic election thing all wrong. Hillary Clinton is a candidate running in a democratic election. It is her job to reach out to voters and she has the responsibility to earn their votes. She is not royalty where she can demand their "respect".

Blickers
 
  4  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:46 am
@maxdancona,
1. I don't think a plumb speaking role at the convention is what Bernie is talking about when he says concessions. He means Hillary changing her policies to suit Sanders, and since Hillary has won the primaries because of those policies over Sanders, that would not be a good thing for her to do.

You don't know at all that Secretary of State was offered in exchange for Hillary's support, that's conjecture. And besides, even if was true, which we don't know that it was, it didn't come at the end of Hillary publicly asking, "What concessions is Obama going to give me to entice me to give up the race"? Because that is what Sanders is doing.

2. TYT, which I have watched with decreasing frequency for a couple of years, has gone whole hog on Sanders. Hillary can't do anything right as far as they are concerned. I'm not sure they represent young voters, as ehBeth pointed Hillary does fine with young voters when compared to Trump.

3. Hillary's whole campaign has been reaching out to voters. I see no reason why Bernie can't be given a good speaking place at the convention, but any concessions should be made when the two get together. Publicly calling for concessions is just bad form on Sanders' side.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  4  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:47 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

There are three problems with that Blickers.

1) In 2008 Obama gave Hillary quite a bit for her support including a plumb speaking role in the convention, a prime cabinet position and strong establishment support this year. Hillary was well compensated for the "respect" she showed Obama.

2) This is not about Bernie Sanders, it is about Bernie's supporters. You may see nothing wrong with her answer, but try to look at it from the perspective of these young progressive voters. If you are having trouble doing this, then watch this clip again... the Young Turks represent these voters.

3) You have this whole democratic election thing all wrong. Hillary Clinton is a candidate running in a democratic election. It is her job to reach out to voters and she has the responsibility to earn their votes. She is not royalty where she can demand their "respect".



And Bernie is no opposing force Generalisimo that needs to be placated and wooed. Hillary will deserve Bernie's loyalty and respect if she beats him. If Hillary has the sense God gave a flea, she will of course bend her ear from here on to what those Democratic Socialists have been saying. That still doesn't release Bernie from doing what's right. If he loses, the only reason for him not formally and convincingly conceding and encouraging his voters to support her would have to do not so much with any high societal aspirations, but with his ego, and his and his followers choking on sour grapes.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 11:55 am
@snood,
Quote:
Hillary will deserve Bernie's loyalty and respect if she beats him.


This attitude is a problem. Bernie's supporters don't owe Hillary anything. Bernie has more of an obligation to his supporters than he does to Hillary Clinton or the democratic establishment that tilted the race against him the whole way.

And, if Hillary keeps acting like they owe her "loyalty and respect"... she might just lose a general election that she should win.

The Hillary campaign came into the primary a year ago with a sense of entitlement. This is part of the reason her net approval rating is so negative. She may win anyway given the competition..

But this attitude of what Hillary deserves is part of the reason that her campaign is so frustrating to me.
snood
 
  5  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 12:01 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
Hillary will deserve Bernie's loyalty and respect if she beats him.


This attitude is a problem. Bernie's supporters don't owe Hillary anything. Bernie has more of an obligation to his supporters than he does to Hillary Clinton or the democratic establishment that tilted the race against him the whole way.

And, if Hillary keeps acting like they owe her "loyalty and respect"... she might just lose a general election that she should win.

The Hillary campaign came into the primary a year ago with a sense of entitlement. This is part of the reason her net approval rating is so negative. She may win anyway given the competition..

But this attitude of what Hillary deserves is part of the reason that her campaign is so frustrating to me.


Well that sounds like a personal problem. No one's saying Hillary deserves anything more that any other winning nominee in a hotly contested presidential race deserves. A clear concession from her opponent, and a sincere attempt to swing voters toward her and away from the opposing side.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 12:08 pm
@snood,
No Snood, It is not a personal problem. It is 10 million personal problems. I am sure that you understand how elections work in a democracy. To win, Hillary Clinton has to earn the votes of millions of people. No one owes her their vote. She has to earn it.

Hillary Clinton did not support Obama out of a sense of honor. She is a politician and she wielded her leverage like any other politician would. Obama had to bend over backwards to assuage Hillary Clinton. He gave her a prime speaking gig and the Secretary of State job. And, the democratic party gave their unquestioning support for the nomination this year.

Hillary was very well compensated for stepping aside in 2008.



snood
 
  5  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 12:10 pm
@maxdancona,
You're repeating yourself. I'd just be repeating that you're wrong, so I'll beg off.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  3  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 02:00 pm
@snood,
I presume he will do that when and if she wins the primary (of course she will), and I would be upset if he doesn't. I support Bernie but I'm not into adoration. I go back and forth about voting for her in the primary, but the tilt is toward no for a complexity of reasons, include my wee vote's backing, having watched her opinion tide turn-during his presence on the political airwaves in the US: one more vote for him in the primary is one more punched ticked for his mild leftiness.

I am somewhat timorous re both of them, for differing reasons, but way less re either of them than I am about the GOP candidates..
snood
 
  3  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 02:04 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

I presume he will do that, and I would be upset if he doesn't. I support Bernie but I'm not into adoration. I go back and forth about voting for her in the primary, but the tilt is toward no for a complexity of reasons, include my wee vote's backing, having watched her opinion tide turn-during his presence on the political airwaves in the US: one more vote is one more punched ticked for his mild leftiness.

I am somewhat timorous re both of them, but way less re either of them than I am about the GOP candidates..

I hear you osso. I suspect your feelings are shared by a large number of Democratic voters.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 02:50 pm
@snood,
Quote:
I am somewhat timorous re both of them, but way less re either of them than I am about the GOP candidates..


That candidate's name is Donald Trump.
snood
 
  3  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 03:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Quote:
I am somewhat timorous re both of them, but way less re either of them than I am about the GOP candidates..


That candidate's name is Donald Trump.

You attributed that quote to the wrong person. Osso said that.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 03:10 pm
@snood,
That's my opinion.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 03:29 pm
@maxdancona,
They must not understand... Don't waste your breath.
I doubt sincerely that Sanders even tries to sway his people unless she makes severe changes.... and he nor we believe anything she says, so a Bernie endorsement is unlikely - and Bernie voters acting on a Bernie endorsement is less likely.

You know what she wants more than the endorsement?




Our contact info.
She will NEVER get that.

0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 04:08 pm
I hope Bernie does endorse Hillary - for the good of us all. And I'm sorry, but I hope if he does it's very bitter for all the wretched, scotched earth dead-enders who hope for chaos if Bernie loses. Very bitter and as hard to swallow as hot bile. Couldn't happen to a sweeter bunch of people.
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Tue 26 Apr, 2016 04:14 pm
@snood,
There is a benefit to the Democratic party if Hillary Clinton loses. I am not sure if it is worth the Supreme Court picks... but there is a benefit.
 

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