When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

@maxdancona,

Have you written to your congressman and President Obama? How about your local newspaper?

@cicerone imposter,

Yes of course.

And Hillary's support of the use of US military power is one of the reasons that I support Bernie Sanders.

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This election is not happening in a vacuum. By that I mean to say, there will be long lasting and profound effects from it that will shape politics and influence policy.

Don't you think that Bernie Sanders will wield a lot of clout now with the constituency he has been able to gather, and that he can bring pressure to bear to which Hillary Clinton will have to take heed?

When people talk about all the liberal agenda that's going to be lost forever without Bernie in the oval office, aren't they underestimating the powerful wake up call that the Bernie candidacy has been (and also maybe overestimating the power Hillary can wield unilaterally)?

Hillary will be trying to make decisions that get her reelected - she can't just shitcan all those millions of people in Bernie's camp, and she can't ignore what they want - be it less foreign intervention, less big money influence, or etc. I think her will can be bent by the desires of this newly vocal 'movement'. I think talking as if Hillary as president will mean that everything liberals/progressives want will be lost forever might be a little hasty.

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@snood,

Maybe she can just say "We had an election. You lost.

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@snood,

I sure hope so Snood. I will vote for Hillary in the general election (although I plan to be nice and drunk when I do). The previous Clinton administration (where progressive rhetoric was used to sugar coat to some pretty conservative policies) doesn't give me much solace.

But sure, I will keep an open mind. Maybe Hillary will pleasantly surprise me. If she stops deportations, is restrained in the use of military force and embraces social justice issues beyond feminism I will be very happy to admit that I was wrong about her.

If you have buyer's remorse about Hillary in a couple of years, I will offer you a shoulder to cry on. If Hillary has made us as happy as you seem to expect she will, I will buy you a beer.

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@maxdancona,

We did have to deal with communism, it wasn't made up, we were in a cold war where at the touch of a button, the world could end as knew it. I remember in second grade having drills and watching those scary films. I don't condone anything. I just don't pretend to know more than I do. Often times we (it seems more times than not) we are on the bad side because there is someone worse we are dealing with. I turned fifty last month, some of what you are talking about was before my time, though I know something about the Contra affair (wasn't that trading hostages or something of the sort with Ollie North?) (Wasn't too terribly interested in world affairs, had two babies...)

My point is simply this, Bernie Sander's heart was in the right place as all what you are talking about must have been terrible to live with, but he might not should have interfered while we had military and other negotiations going on between our two countries. From what I read, the problem was accepting support and money from the Soviet Union and Cuba of which we were in a cold war with. It is understandable. It is all kind of weird having a sister city and all that. Today I read where he lived in a commune for a while. He just seems a bit on the radical side; a bit extreme.

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@roger,

roger wrote:

Maybe she can just say "We had an election. You lost.

Obama said that, then found out how badly the opposition can gum up the works. It was great copy, and I'm glad he told that to whiny ass McCain. But I stand by my assertion that Hillary won't be governing without considering what all those millions of Bernie faithful want.

And it is worth making note that Obama didn't say that to Hillary, or direct it at her followers - he said it to McCain, and it was directed at the do-nothing, obstruct everything Republicans.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I sure hope so Snood. I will vote for Hillary in the general election (although I plan to be nice and drunk when I do). The previous Clinton administration (where progressive rhetoric was used to sugar coat to some pretty conservative policies) doesn't give me much solace.

But sure, I will keep an open mind. Maybe Hillary will pleasantly surprise me. If she stops deportations, is restrained in the use of military force and embraces social justice issues beyond feminism I will be very happy to admit that I was wrong about her.

If you have buyer's remorse about Hillary in a couple of years, I will offer you a shoulder to cry on. If Hillary has made us as happy as you seem to expect she will, I will buy you a beer.

I don't "expect her to make us happy", and I haven't said I do. I am simply holding open the possibility that she might not be as disastrous as some are making out.

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@revelette2,

nods

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@maxdancona,

I completely agree.

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http://usuncut.com/politics/clinton-super-pac-busted/

Cheating by Hillary.

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@Lash,

Let me get this straight-YOU are posting a link to an article complaining about a Hillary PAC hiring online trolls? YOU?

Now I've seen everything.

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Here's an article about how Bernie's influence is already shaping the electoral landscape. Zephyr Teachout's victory in NY was helped by Bernie's support for her candidacy.
I think there's potential for a lot of exactly the kind of change Bernie followers want - even with Hillary in office.

Bernie Sanders' Revolution Might Win in New York After All

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/04/zephyr-teachout-bernie-sanders-new-york

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http://media.cagle.com/73/2016/04/21/178419_600.jpg

http://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.Ma9f8030e8bd609c0d2ab928580bc86b5o0&pid=15.1

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

During the 1960s and 1970s, US backed groups committed systemic rapes and killings on these indigenous people. These atrocities are well documented. Women were lined up and raped in front of their families. Entire villages were lined up and killed. Children were thrown on top of their dead parents. There are still trials taking place by digging up mass graves to identify victims using DNA.

It should be noted that in Cold War Latin America atrocities were committed by both the right and the left.

maxdancona wrote:

Did we need to support these things? The justification for systemic rape and mass killings of villagers was the same then as it is now "we have to deal with communism and we have to do things I wish we didn't"

We were fighting for our very existence.

Yes, we had to side with unsavory characters. It was the only way we could survive.

maxdancona wrote:

So now we have drone strikes. It is documented that children have watched their friends die in an explosion that came from a blue sky. A recent NPR story said that children have learned to be afraid of sunny clear days because that is when these strikes happen. We have made kids afraid of sunny days.

We didn't ask for this war. They came here and started killing us.

maxdancona wrote:

I am not one to be happy ignorant of what we are doing, and I don't accept that fear of terrorism or communism or any other ism justifies US or US supported groups committing atrocities.

Precision wartime strikes against military targets are not in any way an atrocity.

And the fact that we are defending ourselves from their attacks against us does in fact fully justify these dronestrikes.

maxdancona wrote:

Sadly, the one candidate who has opposed the US committing atrocities isn't going to make it to the general election.

If Mr. Sanders were elected, he would defend the US just as vigorously as any other candidate would.

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http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/what-sort-of-foreign-policy-hawk-is-hillary-clinton

interesting read with good links

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@ehBeth,

Thanks for the mention of the Cassidy piece, I've read it now and it confirms my general she's a hawk worrying. Scary. Not news to me, but more details lining up.
Will read the two links.

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@revelette2,

Revelette, the threat of communism never justified that systemic rape and mass killings that were the direct result of US intervention in Latin America. At least not in my opinion. These crimes were done by US funded and armed groups, and historical documents show that the US government knew about these crimes and gave their tacit approval.

The president has a lot of power, not just over this country. The president has the sole ability to project US military might around the world. And the president had damn well better understand that these actions have real human consequences... often horrible human consequences.

This is why this particular issue is so important to me... and also why support for the Iraq War and the Drone Strike campaign is troubling to me.

Yes, things that scare the American people from Communism to Terrorism have been used to justify some pretty barbaric acts committed with our support. I am not saying that there is no risk from communism and terrorism, there is. But these fears also have great propaganda value.

I think every American voter should have the courage to look at what was done in our name. In Guatemala they are still digging up the mass graves and documenting the stories of systemic rape and torture. I would encourage you to take some time to understand this because it is important.

We, as a society have to decide if our fear for the lives of Americans gives us the right to support the murder and torture of innocent people abroad.

This is one of my major concerns about a Hillary Clinton presidency.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Revelette, the threat of communism never justified that systemic rape and mass killings that were the direct result of US intervention in Latin America. At least not in my opinion. These crimes were done by US funded and armed groups, and historical documents show that the US government knew about these crimes and gave their tacit approval.

These war crimes were not the direct result of US intervention. Those groups decided to commit atrocities all on their own.

The US did not tacitly approve of the atrocities, and in fact pressured our associates to not commit them. Our associates often ignored that advice, but that's not our fault.

The most the US would be guilty of is continuing to associate with people after they committed atrocities. But the threat of Communism was real. It was a global threat and we had to pick the lesser evil.

maxdancona wrote:

This is why this particular issue is so important to me... and also why support for the Iraq War and the Drone Strike campaign is troubling to me.

The Drone Strikes are justified self defense against people who are trying to massacre us. What in the world could be troubling about that?

In Iraq we toppled a horrible dictator (who incidentally committed brutal atrocities), and we set up freedom and democracy in his wake. Doesn't sound all that bad to me.

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@oralloy,

You had me up until you so casually dismiss drone strikes and the consequences of them. I am not sure, would have look and make sure, but I think there had been a decision made concerning the use of drones to make less prone to kill innocent people which is horrible and never should be dismissed so casually.

It wasn't a change in policy but a change in transparency in the use of drones.

Obama to release drone casualty report

1 Reply

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

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