When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

@edgarblythe,

I get you, but with all the gutting that will occur, will be late if possible at all.

This is news to me, the repulsed backing off from voting for her ever. I'm aware of Lash's views.
I had my own thread against her, but I'd rather her in charge than Trump, Cruz, others. I hope that is this is small.

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@ossobuco,

I reluctantly supported the second Bill Clinton presidency and I reluctantly supported Obama. My misgivings have come true and I am finished with settling for what doesn't really work with my lone vote.

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I'm just learning about this - scorched earth bernites? I can see Lash thinks that way now, and somewhat understand Lash, but I don't want to ascribe that to her, I doubt all Sanders people do.
But I've no idea.

Anyway, I don't think of Bernie Sanders as any kind of scorched earth person, as in, are you kidding?

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Revolving back, I see snood and I agree, or did when he wrote his post.

I also get the scorched earth thing a bit better.
Anyway, past all that, I've talked with my x lately. A short summary is that we loved each other and time went by and we parted after around 25 years, but that is now a lot of years after that, still some connection, including re politics. He has set up political plays in community theaters, and besides all that, retains political interest. So, what, we talk once in a while.

My point, I'm not quite sure, but I might mention his takes from time to time. This one is that Hillary has got it. Way it is.

Also he said a lot of other stuff.

I'll be back with his next take sometime next year.

I should probably give him a name: osso fp, former partner.

This amuses me. Of course no one cares what my smart x says now or later.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

I reluctantly supported the second Bill Clinton presidency and I reluctantly supported Obama. My misgivings have come true and I am finished with settling for what doesn't really work with my lone vote.

That's fine, and I understand your frustration. But have you thought about the kind of damage a presidency of one of the delusional madmen Republicans could do? Can you really consider that, and still say that the lesson taught to progressives by voting green or not voting would be worth it? I hear you folks saying you're tired of settling, but what I don't hear is acknowledgement of the potential disaster for the country - all of us - if a Republican wins

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@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

I'm just learning about this - scorched earth bernites? I can see Lash thinks that way now, and somewhat understand Lash, but I don't want to ascribe that to her, I doubt all Sanders people do.
But I've no idea.

Anyway, I don't think of Bernie Sanders as any kind of scorched earth person, as in, are you kidding?

I obviously wasn't calling Bernie scorched earth, only some of his followers.

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@snood,

Ultimately, liberals have to reclaim their party or surrender to their foes. That's the way it works.

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@edgarblythe,

Good for you.

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@edgarblythe,

that is simply naive

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@edgarblythe,

looks like what you're considering is a considerably longer period of loss

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@snood,

snood wrote:

What I'm not sure the scorched- earth "Bernites" understand is that the amount of damage a Trump, Cruz or Rubio presidency could do might not leave enough of a country for any dems or anyone else to salvage.

definitely something to consider

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@snood,

not arguing with you at all

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@snood,

snood wrote:

I hear you folks saying you're tired of settling, but what I don't hear is acknowledgement of the potential disaster for the country - all of us - if a Republican wins

I'm just listening to a program where they're discussing a couple of things 1) the number of people Trump has brought to the Republican party, 2) the likelihood that support for Trump is higher than the polls are showing as he's the kind of candidate people don't like to tell pollsters they're supporting.

People who are simply saying no to Hillary need to think about the reality of a country possibly led by Donald Trump, possibly followed by a more traditional Republican president. That's 12 - 16 years of Republican presidents (most of the people in this debate don't think Trump would want more than one term).

Quote:

After Trump announced his support for a ban on Muslims entering the US, he was roundly criticized by American politicians across the political spectrum. But according to a Bloomberg poll, his views had the support of many Republicans. For a look at what Trump's rise means for the Party, Brent spoke to two conservative political analysts. Sean Trende is a Senior Elections Analyst for Real Clear Politics and the author of "The Lost Majority: Why the Future of Government Is Up for Grabs and Who Will Take It." He wrote about laying odds on the Republican field for RCP this week. Henry Olsen is a Senior Fellow at the Ethics and Public Policy Center, and he's the author of "The Four Faces of The Republican Party: The Fight for the 2016 Presidential Nomination." His article in the Atlantic this week is "The Polls May Be Underestimating Trump's Support."

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@ossobuco,

In case I am not clear, I will vote for Hillary Clinton. I don't have to like her.
She may even surprise me in good ways. I sort of get her as a person, just don't always agree on a variety of (a lot of stuff)

Well, that was nicey. I'm meaner in real life. But - I still don't dismiss Hillary as a person at all.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

Ultimately, liberals have to reclaim their party or surrender to their foes. That's the way it works.

What oracle issued this edict? "That's the way it works" -says who? This is almost classic all-or-nothing reasoning. Hardly a practical way of doing things in ANY matters involving human beings. Do you understand it's NOT going to be okay to live in this country after you "surrender it to foes"?

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@snood,

The progressive wing of the party is in a struggle to move the party to the authentic left.

If a large voting bloc within the party felt disrespected for several cycles and they were routinely courted by the nominee for votes but disregarded during the party's tenure, they may decide to stay home on election day and allow the party to suffer a loss.

That is the most powerful way to ensure changes within the party.

I see talk of this everywhere.

edit - I see you've outlined your understanding of this . The DNC is to blame for forcing HRC down the party's throat. Wasserman Shultz perverted the process and the electorate was treated deplorably. It is only a political party in name. It MUST be taken back by the people. Otherwise, the whole thing is a joke. I think it is VITAL to stand up and be counted.

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The people who see the danger of helping the Republicans win this next election...but will do it anyway...

...are free to do so.

Whether it is considered throwing out the baby with the bath water or cutting one's nose off to spite one's face apparently no longer matters to them.

They feel their "principles" are too important to compromise.

Fine...that is what they have to do, I guess.

Those of us opposed to that kind of thinking just have to suggest that they reconsider...and hope (if Hillary is the candidate) they come to their senses when Election Day comes around.

My principles tell me that I should do EVERYTHING IN MY POWER to avoid a presidency of people like Trump, Cruz, Rubio...or for that matter, JEB.

All elections are important...but this one is especially important.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

The progressive wing of the party is in a struggle to move the party to the authentic left.

If a large voting bloc within the party felt disrespected for several cycles and they were routinely courted by the nominee for votes but disregarded during the party's tenure, they may decide to stay home on election day and allow the party to suffer a loss.

That is the most powerful way to ensure changes within the party.

I see talk of this everywhere.

edit - I see you've outlined your understanding of this . The DNC is to blame for forcing HRC down the party's throat. Wasserman Shultz perverted the process and the electorate was treated deplorably. It is only a political party in name. It MUST be taken back by the people. Otherwise, the whole thing is a joke. I think it is VITAL to stand up and be counted.

Ok, let's follow that thought to it's completion. Say it's the day after the ekection, and Ted Cruz is the new president. At that moment, say progressives and liberals all come to their senses and see the light and recognize the folly of their decision. Besides a deep newfound conviction to support a true liberal in the future, what will they have? Won't they have at least four years of insane economic, foreign and domestic policies being enacted - more wars, less economic equity, more judicial oppression? What will they DO besides regret what's transpired? Press for shutdown, like the rightwingnuts? March on washington?
What will they DO?

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@Frank Apisa,

This is a wonderful goal. The way to achieve it is to vote for Bernie Sanders.

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@snood,

Edit- The result won't be a surprise to anyone but HRC and her lapdog, Shultz. Revolt is the most sensible thing to do based on the ramrod way the process was controlled by one candidate and her money.

What we should do after pulling the rug from under the corrupt party in place is to begin working on the necessary changes.

Oust Wasserman-Shultz, put together a fair people's party, start grooming and supporting progressive candidates on the grassroots level, using the STRONG base of grassroots workers already in place nationwide to change the face of Washington in midterms and the next cycle...

Publicize blogs and vlog stations on youtube to get our local messages to other progressives - and use this platform to educate possible new members like Indies and sensible Republicans about what's really behind many Republican policies and objectives.

To be ready to roll in the midterms.

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When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

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