80
   

When will Hillary Clinton give up her candidacy ?

 
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 11:44 am
@Lash,
And I chided him about that and he promised to "cool down".
Lash
 
  0  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 11:44 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Great! I'm worried that many reasonable people may jump to that conclusion due to his super Jew-ism. Thanks for re-looking.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 11:45 am
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:
I have very serious problems with Bernie's unqualified support of Israel and poor record of support for Palestine and Palestinians rights.


he seems to have been trying to balance on a razor's edge on that one

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/backstory-bernie-sanders-and-palestine
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 11:47 am
@bobsal u1553115,
I respected that because I thought Frank's accusation was really out there. I thought my response was measured. (In a humourous vein instead of down and dirty....)

I appreciated your input.

0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  4  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 11:47 am
@Lash,
Ummmmm .... surely there is a much better expression than "Jew-ism"? Maybe his super "Judaism"? But, I've heard Bernie claim not be "religious".
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 11:49 am
@ehBeth,
Yeah .... I definitely missed the mark on that one. I did a quick search before I posted it. I really got it wrong.
Lash
 
  -1  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 11:50 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Um, I like talking with you, but I don't react well to all this micromanagement of how I say things.

I am a big fat Jew lover. I chose to say super Jew-ism. I retain the right to say it again.

I promise not to micromanage your diction.

And yes, I think he's agnostic.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 11:51 am
@bobsal u1553115,
There's a lot out there.

http://mondoweiss.net/2015/09/sanders-economic-pussycat

Quote:
But if Bernie Sanders is a radical on economic changes in the United States, he is a pussycat when it comes to changes in Israel and Palestine. Five days ago, he gave an interview to Little Village, an alternative publication in Iowa, and endorsed continuing U.S. military aid to Israel and more economic aid to Palestinians. He did not condemn the Israeli occupation, but blamed actors on both sides of the conflict; and while rejecting Benjamin Netanyahu declined to endorse any of the leftwing programs re Israel, notably BDS, boycott, divestment and sanctions.


https://theintercept.com/2015/10/05/dissent-on-israel-not-permitted-at-bernie-sanders-event/

Quote:
Fast forward to 2015, this past Saturday, when Bernie Sanders, an increasingly viable contender for the Democratic presidential nomination, held one of his biggest campaign rallies to date, drawing more than 20,000 people to an event at the Boston convention center. Among those visitors were a number of young activists from Boston Students for Justice in Palestine, who were curious about Sanders’ position on the occupied territories. They had a sign with them; in a playful nod to one of Sanders’ campaign slogans, it simply asked, “Will Ya Feel The Bern For Palestine?” The activists say they were well-received by other Sanders supporters in the crowd.

But staffers working for a candidate widely viewed as one of the most progressive members of the Senate were apparently not happy. Security was made aware of a threat: Some students who support Sanders were holding a sign with a question on it. A tactic right out of the Bush campaign “playbook” went into action.

“They told us to either put the sign away or leave,” said Sana Hashmani, one of the student activists. “We asked why, and they said that Bernie’s campaign staff had said the sign had to go.”

There had been no signs of trouble previously. The pro-Palestine group was doing nothing unusual — except, perhaps, for daring to question Sanders about territories occupied by Israel, of which Sanders has been a not-entirely-progressive supporter. “When we got there and entered the overflow space with our sign, people were supporting us and taking pictures, and other people had signs talking about various social issues as well,” Hashmani said.

In a brief cell phone video of the incident, security staff can be seen threatening to arrest the students if they didn’t leave the premises.

Two days after the students were ejected, a day after the group posted about the encounter on Facebook, a Sanders 2016 spokesperson acknowledged a campaign staffer was behind the ejection and that an error had been made. “What happened was a poor decision by a low-level staffer and doesn’t reflect campaign policy,” the spokesperson said.

To a certain extent, the episode reflects an underlying tension between Sanders’ base of young progressives and his comparatively friendly posture toward Israel.


etc etc

it's a balancing act
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 11:54 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Israel/Palestine is not Mr. Sanders' strong suit when it comes to young progressives in particular.

It appears he is aware of that as he keeps dodging/redirecting when it comes up.
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 12:06 pm
@ehBeth,
What do you or bobsal or anyone consider the fair "progressive" Israel/Pal stance?

He (and I) may have a policy we've really thought-out with compassion to both sides that sounds like fence-sitting. Will is always sound like fence-sitting unless you advocate pre-eminence for one side?
RABEL222
 
  3  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 02:17 pm
@snood,
Have you noticed that the republicans have posted attack ads for Hillary but not Bernie. They leave that to people like Lash who praise Bernie and attack Hillary under the guise of born again liberal or middle of the road voters. If they, the born again republicans, can get Bernie the democratic nomination you will see an unprecented commie, socialist attack bu the republican establishment on him that will defeat him. I believe that has been the plan from the start. You very seldom see a political attack from the republicans on Bernie. Some even praise him which makes me very suspicious of the born again republicans motives. A republican president means an ultra conservative Supreme Court and a loss of even more freedoms.
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 02:22 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
Have you noticed that the republicans have posted attack ads for Hillary but not Bernie

Unlike Trump and Carson no one on either side of the aisle takes Sanders as a serious threat. Especially when he was sliding even before we knew ISIS is going global. Sanders is done. Now we see how Trump and Carson hold up. I could not imagine voting for Carson with the way instability and violence is sweeping the globe. If things get too much worse I myself will have to consider voting for Hillary.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 02:23 pm
@Lash,
I wasent talking about Hillary and her ability. I was talking about your god Bernie and his being afraid to make his speech. But of course you knew that and just threw shyt in the game. I dont think anyone on this site would believe that I would ever vote for any republican presently running. But you on the other hand.......
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 02:34 pm
@Lash,
I live in Central Texas. I've heard words just like that before, and they were not made by anyone Jewish, they were made by Rednecks speaking against Jewish Americans and in fact, against all Jewish people everywhere.

So excuse me.
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 02:37 pm
@Lash,
From my crash course of the last couple of hours Bernie has a better grasp than and is also much less beholden to the Israel lobby than does and is Hillary.

And miles ahead better than most of the GOP clown car.
snood
 
  5  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 03:09 pm
Frank wrote:
Quote:
If you cannot see the difference between America's attitude toward race. ..and its attitude toward the word "socialism"... then YOU ARE BLIND.



Before that, you said something about you never, ever saying Obama didn't have a chance.

Frank, I don’t know if you can relax your jets enough to read and understand this, but you are out of line buddy. Someone simply makes the (100% accurate) observation that it was very commonly opined early on that Obama didn't have a chance. That observation was made because people made what ended up to be false assumptions about a candidate's electability - that assumption is being made by many about Bernie.

You take that totally true statement and respond with an apropos of nothing strawman argument that whoever can't see the difference in America's perceptions of race and "socialism" are blind. Arrogant as hell, Frank. A person can have just as nuanced an understanding of that difference and still see a similarity in the ways people are underestimating the two men's electability.

And no one said YOU said that Obama had no chance; only that it was said by many.
You personalized the argument when a general statements are made, then additionally muddy the waters by being insulting. Needlessly. This argument /discussion about the pros and cons of voting for Hillary or Bernie can be had without lording it over anyone as if your understanding is better or someone is woefully ignorant - just because their opinion differs.
Whether you're willing to bet money on your opinion means nothing except you're cocksure about your opinion. Doesn't make it more weighty or count twice. It's just your.one.opinion.

From what I know of you I doubt you'll heed it, but you really could turn it down a notch with nothing lost but snark.
Lash
 
  -1  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 03:54 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
I Wasn't mad. If you look at the context of what I was saying, it becomes clear why I used that term.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 03:56 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
My sincere respect to you for reading up and sharing what you found out.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Sun 15 Nov, 2015 03:17 am
Quote:
Why is Clinton embracing Obama so unapologetically? She has several good reasons. One is that on economic policy, immigration, and the use of force, Obama has governed as a prudent centrist, and Clinton shares that sensibility. Another reason is that Democratic presidents have a better record of job growth than Republicans do, and Clinton intends to make that a major campaign theme. A third reason is that Gore’s strategy failed, so she might as well try the opposite.

But the biggest reason might be that Clinton is a woman. She doesn’t need to manufacture or exaggerate differences with Obama, because she’d be the first female president, and that distinguishes her not just from her old boss, but also from her husband and every other president. And she’s betting that anyone who belittles her as Obama’s clone will look like a sexist. As she often puts it: "I'm not running for my husband's third term. I'm not running for President Obama's third term. I'm running for my first term.”

This is what Republicans wanted. All year, they’ve been trying to tie Clinton to Obama. It looks like she’s going to give them what they wanted. They may regret it.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/11/hillary_talks_up_obama_s_record_during_democratic_debate.html

The R's are convinced that Obama's support in the nation is much weaker than the D's and the journalists think it is. The theory is that a huge number of people cant bring themselves to saying that the first black president is doing a bad job. They dont even want to think it but once the R's start endlessly talking about how poorly the nation is going they will come on board. They think that by fall the nation will vote for change. And really, at this point who does not think that America will vote for change? Hugging Obama will be another political miscalculation from the politically clueless Hillary.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sun 15 Nov, 2015 06:27 am
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

I think its a least arguable that he's made her aware of a sizable segment of Democratic voters that are markedly progressive if not out and out liberal. I'm willing to believe at least some of her tack to some "right" issues had to do with trying to lock down her election. But there are several important issues she needs to let us understand her thinking on. For example:

How does she think recommending the reduction of cannabis from a Class 1 (with Heroin) to Class 2 (with Cocaine) is any sort of improvement?

And I'd like to hear it from her and not any of her surrogates. Shes the one who wants my vote.


It is my opinion that moving presidential candidates further right during primary season arguably has been a loser for the Republicans during the general election time. Moving presidential candidates further left during the primary season will ultimately cause the same problems for Democratic candidates at general election time.

As I noted, Bernie Sanders has sucked the oxygen from the room as far as reasonable, electable alternatives to Hillary Clinton are concerned...and ultimately history may show that he was a negative factor during this coming election than a positive one.

We'll see.

Bernie Sanders as the main opponent to Hillary has just about cemented Hillary as the Dem candidate. It might have been interesting to see a primary season with other real contenders involved.
0 Replies
 
 

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