The difference between a liberal and a conservative

Besides, it's beginning to smell.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Joe wrote:

Quote:
But you just said that you believe the federal government shouldn't play a role in education funding. So wouldn't this be a bad thing

Yeah I think its a bad thing. I would like to see the Dept of Education abolished. I think a staff member or two could probably come up with a reasonable minimum standard for what a highschool graduate should know to have a diploma and Congress could sign off on that. (The states could raise that bar if they wanted to, and the Universities would no doubt raise that bar for their entrance requirements.) But leave the money in the states to take care of their own schools.

And back to those fish. Should the federal government have a role in the administration of fish? There's a tiny silvery minnow that lives in the middle Rio Grande in New Mexico and apparently nowhere else. It is presumed to be an endangered species. The environmentalists think it is more important to protect that fish than the livelihoods of thousands of farmers and workers in related industries who depend on irrigation water downstream. Who should decide the fate of the fish if in fact it can't live if the farmers get the water? The farmers? The state? Or the federal government?

So far as moon rocks go, who owns the moon? Should the Federal government decide who gets to go get them? Or can we citizens build our own spacecraft and help ourselves?

I learn more and more about Libertarians every day here. You all seem a bit dual and confused. That's just an opinion from a neutral observer. Smile

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This turned into quite the funny thread!

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Debate with humour builds bridges, debate with hatred destroys them. I'll stick with the humour.

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No confusion Cav. That I can't have what I want is irrelevant. I do not and should not have the power to dictate to the rest of the world how things should be. But it is my duty (unrelated to politics) to reason how things should be and state my opinion. If enough of us agree on and care enough about any principle, it will happen.

Meanwhile, though I think the way some things are being done is wrong, there is still a better way and a worse way to do them. In the case of education, my way would be for the Federal government not to take the education money at all but leave it with the states to educate their kids. Whether that is done by the public or private sector is irrelevant, but it is ridiculous to assume that the same system that is effective in inner city New York is practical for rural Utah, etc.

The most role the feds should have is to set reasonable minimum standards and maybe help monitor a data base and national testing to help guage effectiveness.

This view is quite consistent with conservative libertarianism. This would promote the common welfare without providing it.

But if more people want the Federal government to be more involved in education, then the Bush administration should get credit for substantial increased spending for education.

Meanwhile, nobody has any opinions whether private citizens should be able to go collect moon rocks?

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Re: The difference between a liberal and a conservative

mysteryman wrote:

In a nutshell,the difference can be described by the old saying..."give a man a fish,and he will eat for a day,teach him to fish and he will eat EVERY day"

I agree. Some say this is loaded, but I don't think it is. Look at our social programs... like welfare. The welfare program doesn't do anything to help people get off of welfare, it just keeps people in the hole.

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Fox's quote, " I do not and should not have the power to dictate to the rest of the world how things should be." Still don't see the problem with this president's dictates? Strange.

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Space travel seems to be running the route of privatization, so those who can afford it in the future will be able to collect all the moon rocks they desire.

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C.I. The president is elected to head up the executive branch of the government. If he 'dictates' what the people don't want, he hears about it. And if he 'dictates' too much of what the people don't want, he gets voted out of office. As a result, on balance, the president generally 'dictates' what the majority of the people want dictated.

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Quote:

C.I. The president is elected to head up the executive branch of the government. If he 'dictates' what the people don't want, he hears about it. And if he 'dictates' too much of what the people don't want, he gets voted out of office

That is, if the people are actually the ones responsible for getting him elected - this says nothing about the role of Corparate and private interests....

Your example works in a world where money does not run our electoral process. As money does run it, your example doesn't really hold up in a real-world situation, for one big reason:

Your example posits that people think for themselves, and will tell the pres. when he is wrong. I think that while this is true in some cases, the vast majority of people get TOLD what to think, by the media and the government, and therefore what the president dictates BECOMES what the majority of the people want dictated.

It's sad, really...

Cycloptichorn

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Cyclo, There's too much trees in the forest for some to see clearly.

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Hmm so you guys are saying the media tells you what to think?

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"Meanwhile, nobody has any opinions whether private citizens should be able to go collect moon rocks?"

I don't think anybody will stop them.

They so better not leave visible junk on our side of the moon, though!

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Re: The difference between a liberal and a conservative

L.R.R.Hood wrote:

mysteryman wrote:
In a nutshell,the difference can be described by the old saying..."give a man a fish,and he will eat for a day,teach him to fish and he will eat EVERY day"

I agree. Some say this is loaded, but I don't think it is. Look at our social programs... like welfare. The welfare program doesn't do anything to help people get off of welfare, it just keeps people in the hole.

Can you prove your contention re welfare?

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Foxfyre wrote:

Hmm so you guys are saying the media tells you what to think?

Who do you mean by "you guys" Fox???

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Re: The difference between a liberal and a conservative

dlowan wrote:

L.R.R.Hood wrote:
mysteryman wrote:
In a nutshell,the difference can be described by the old saying..."give a man a fish,and he will eat for a day,teach him to fish and he will eat EVERY day"

I agree. Some say this is loaded, but I don't think it is. Look at our social programs... like welfare. The welfare program doesn't do anything to help people get off of welfare, it just keeps people in the hole.

Can you prove your contention re welfare?

I've researched a lot of the welfare requirements and laws... they aren't hard to find. I'm getting ready to start a job tomorrow, or I would take the time to find those links for you.

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Jimmy Carter's Carter Foundation teaches people in underdeveloped areas to farm better, seek better health practices, etc. He's not exactly a conservative. Meanwhile, conservatively oriented businesses demand government money all the time.

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Maybe it is time to read up on the father of some of the terms so loosely thrown around regarding political, social, and economic points of view.

http://www.trincoll.edu/depts/phil/philo/phils/marx.html

IMHO folks are continually confused about the difference between the above separate and distinct issues.

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Here is a statement that will most likely be misunderstood by anyone interested in the differences between conservatives and liberals: Who is duping you more? A hard bi-partisan reign's a-gonna fall.

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JD, The links on your link doesn't work. ;(

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The difference between a liberal and a conservative

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