Clintonista Gangsterism

MyOwnUsername wrote:

9. In any of debates about Islam you can find numerous bigoted and nazi remarks about Islam and Muslims made by Swolf. Not disagreeing hard, not maybe harsh comments that someone would consider as not really okay - no, pure bigoted NAZISM.

My advice: spend more time worrying about naziism at home (Croatia) and less trying to project it onto others; the time spent would be more productive.

http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/the_vatican.htm

Quote:

The recent apology by Pope John Paul II holds little weight with the heirs and few elderly survivors of one of the bloodiest chapters in the Roman Catholic Church, the 1941-1945 atrocities by the Croatian Nazis known as the Ustashe. In April 1941, multi-ethnic Yugoslavia fell to the Nazis who wasted no time in installing the fanatical Ante Pavlics Catholic Ustashe in power in Croatia. With the blessing of the Roman Catholic Church and the active participation of clergy, especially Franciscan monks, the Ustashe killed 750,000 Serbs, Jews, and Roma in an orgy of violence that shocked even some of the Germans and revolted their Italian allies.....

........According to the most recent estimates, the total amount of stolen assets transferred out of Croatia by the Ustashe at the end of the war was at least $250 million. Based on conversion tables provided by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, this would now be worth $2.325 billion in December 1999 dollars. It is the position of the Jasenovac Research Institute that this entire amount plus interest must be paid to the remaining Survivors and their heirs, and to the heirs of all victims of the Ustashe genocide. This amount would only be a partial accounting for the crimes of genocide committed in wartime Yugoslavia by the Ustashe and other fascist forces; however it would provide the initial foundations for better relations in the future for the peoples of the region.

Several new plaintiffs have stepped forward since the re-filing to ask to be added to the suit. Among them is Eva Deutsch-Costabel, a Yugoslav Jew born in Zagreb and currently living in New York whose family's two businesses and home were stolen by the Ustashe regime and whose father was arrested and murdered.

U.S. attorneys Easton and Levy are seeking additional plaintiffs for the case. To be added as a plaintiff to the lawsuit one needs to be either a Survivor of the Ustashe regime or a relative or heir of a victim of Ustashe crimes. If you are such an individual and you wish to become a plaintiff, or if you have vital information regarding this case, you are encouraged to contact either the Jasenovac Research Institute or the law firm of Thomas Easton at 707-464-4513 or [email protected]. The Jasenovac Research Institute urges everyone who is concerned with the search for justice for the victims of the Ustashe Holocaust to help us in our efforts to achieve a successful outcome of this historically important case.

The lawsuit was filed in U.S. District Court in San Francisco: No.C99-4941MMC by the Law Office of Thomas Dewey Easton and Jonathan H. Levy. PO Box 6080, Cincinnati OH 45206, USA ([email protected]).

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You might not know that, swolf, but Germany is the neighbour country of The Netherlands. Both are members of the EU and have similar to identical asylum laws.

The fact that the EU-countries are forcing the return of the Kosovo Albanians is not what I really like, but nevertheless it's not a singular Dutch, or German or Austrian problem. [Since 1993, this is regulated in accordance with the IGC (Inter-governmental Consultations on Asylum, Refugee and Migration Policies in Europe, North America and Australia).]

Kosovo Albanians didn't have the status of "failed assylum seekers" but "de-facto-refugees" (at least those, who didn't asked for asylum), btw.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

In fact, it has been revealed that some prosecution witnesses have been
coerced to lie under oath, others have committed perjury. Former NATO
commander Wesley Clark, was allowed, in violation of the principle of an
open trial, to give testimony in private, with Washington able to apply for
removal of any parts of his evidence from the public record they deemed to
be against US interests.

President Milosevic was indicted during the 78 day continuous bombardment of
Yugoslavia by US-led NATO forces, which used cluster bombs and depleted
uranium, attempted to assassinate Milosevic by bombing his residence, killed
thousands of civilians and caused billions of dollars of damage to the
country's infrastructure. This illegal act of undeclared war is in clear
violation of the NATO Charter, the UN Charter, and International Law. Yet
neither Wesley Clark, nor the leaders of NATO countries have been indicted
for the crimes of which Slobodan Milosevic is accused.

Consider the contrast between Kosovo and Iraq.

In Kosovo, you had large numbers of civilian casualties, and major damage to the civilian infrastructure of Serbia. This is because the military understood at the time that they were dealing with another dog-wagging episode, this time to take the Juanita Broaddrick story off the front pages of our newspapers, which they could not possibly ask any of their soldiers or airmen to risk injury or death over.

And so they tried bombing from 25,000 - 30,000' for a few weeks and then, when they realized they could not hurt the Serbian military from Earth orbit, they embarked upon a campaign of what you would normally call war crimes, targetting Serbian civilians and civilian infrastructure hundreds of miles from any legitimate military target. There was immense suffering amongst the civilian population

Iraq by way of contrast appears to be the most righteous use of American military power since WW-II. Civilian casualties appear to have been fewer than the regime which we got rid of would have killed for fun and sport in the same time period, and most of the people of Iraq are still celebrating. Granted the die-hard baathists aren't happy, but their days are numbered.

In general, American military personnel knew they were fighting for a righteous cause, and had no qualms about going into harm's way for it, and this very willingness to face danger on the part of our soldiers spared the civilian population from all but a statistically insignificant amount of harm. In fact once the Iraqis realized that only baathist targets were being hit, large numbers of them began going about their normal business as if nothing unusual were happening while a war war going on around them and, for the most part, they were safe doing that, or at least AS safe as normal life had been under the baathists.

In other words, the understanding by our military that Iraq was a rightous cause and their willingness to go into harms way for it, aside from everything else, protected the Iraqi civilian population.

That is the difference between just wars and unjust wars, and the manner in which soldiers conduct themselves when fighting for righteous as opposed to base causes.

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Walter, I really thought he's "East German", sorry, I don't know where I get that idea.
And I was talking about Germans in my post, and there are no Germans on that list Wink

There are few known people there, but most are irelevant - croatian and serbian culture are very mixed for example, and every Croat knows plenty of serbian authors, composers, as well as every Serb knows plenty of croatian ones. And I never heard for Nadja Tesic (while Raickovic rings some bell, but I am not quite sure which one and why).

More important is that the most stupidest cause on planet can attract at least same number (and almost always even more) of jerks to sign petition.
If Bridgit Bardo can be even bigger racist, chauvinist and bigot then some participants of A2K forum then some can love Milosevic as well.

Not to mention how many incredibly talented artists from many areas of culture and life, and not only in Germany, was supporting Hitler.

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swolf wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:

...

You might have overread that I didn't write that but only quoted (clearly, I thought) an email by a certain Vladimir Krsljanin.

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swolf

So you are saying, the US-military emgagemnet in Kosovo did harm to e.g. civil population, because the military leaders knew, it was an unright war?

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Swolf, you are really joke Very Happy

Nobody here defended Ustashe, so I haven't spent time talking about them. Even biggest idiots so far understood my opinion about them, despite that fact (problem is when idiocy and hate go so far that someone is completely blinded with it). But, I don't see people on forum talking they were good and nice, so I don't need to elaborate them. Serbian Nazis, however, have support in your person.

So, if you, as a member of nation that killed more innocent people then Nazi Scum called Ustashe ever dreamt of, are having fun talking about what they did 60 years ago it's your problem.
I have more important things to do in my life then hating all nations that committed Nazi crimes.
Croats are on your pick because you are obsessed Serb lover - if this chick/guy that doesn't like you was Czech you would now talk about Slovak Nazis, if she/he was Lithuanian you would be talking about Latvian Nazis, if she/he was Jew you would be talking about Germans.
I just don't know what would you do if she/he was Japanese or Iraqi.
Gee, I am sure you would moved out of USA so far.
Oh, yeah, it's different. Ustashe were poor retarded bastards with knifes. It's better when poor retarded bastards are using airplanes and bombs.

You are such a joke Very Happy

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

swolf

So you are saying, the US-military emgagemnet in Kosovo did harm to e.g. civil population, because the military leaders knew, it was an unright war?

precious

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everything is good in Swolf's world. What applies to Kosovo does not apply to Iraq. Serbian generals admiting war crimes is not enough to prove anything, while shallow posts in which only Swolf sees connection between Saddam Hussein and Antrax are rock-solid proof Very Happy

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

The fact that the EU-countries are forcing the return of the Kosovo Albanians is not what I really like, but nevertheless it's not a singular Dutch, or German or Austrian problem. [Since 1993, this is regulated in accordance with the IGC (Inter-governmental Consultations on Asylum, Refugee and Migration Policies in Europe, North America and Australia).]

Kosovo Albanians didn't have the status of "failed assylum seekers" but "de-facto-refugees" (at least those, who didn't asked for asylum), btw.

Nonetheless, you can understand that a neutral observer such as myself would see little if any difference between the situations in Kosovo and in Holland.

The two people raising all the cain here and trying to demonize me are from Holland and Croatia, i.e. they are not neutral in these kinds of questions. I am an ordinary American and the only real cause for passion in my case is being pissed off over the way in which these propagandists have been using my own country and its military resources.

Happily, others in the west are starting to wake up.

A lot of what I picked up on the Balkans situation originally came from usenet discussions and involved people from the countries surrounding Serbia. Several noted that there were originally about 25 countries in the Yugoslav federation, only three of which, (albanians, croats, and bosnians) had ever had any real problems dealing with Serbs, and several were basically vouching for the character of the Serbs.

Albanians by way of contrast are universally hated in the region. Several people accused the albanians of what they termed "rabbit breeding their way to power", noting that when an entire group of people insists on averaging ten or twelve children per family in a tight little part of the world in which land is zlways going to be a zero-sum game, they're basically breeding cannon-fodder and breeding for war. The idea is always to ensconse themselves into some little corner of the other guy's country, do their breeding thing for twenty years until they represent a "majority" in the little corner, and then try to break the little corner off into "Greater Albania"

Like I say, this is not fiction and happily, others are starting to notice:

http://www.kosovo.net/node/view/99

Quote:

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and as of Ustahe Swolf, I told you already, they are your people, not mine. Ustashe, Chetniks, Nazis, Fascists, Swolfs, they are all scum for me.
And the most pathetic of all of your pathetic opinions is one that considers I should be ashamed or something but what they did.
Generally I am in fact. As well as I am generally ashamed that you and me are same species.

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25 countries in Yugoslav federation Very Happy

Swolf is crazier then I thought, I know USA is full of freedom and stuff, but I really think you people should lock mental institutes. At least those for hardest cases.

Dear patient - Yugoslavia was consisted of 6 republics - Serbs attacked Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia (not a single one of them did same, only defending themselves inside their own borders, there was not single shot fired to Serbia from these republics) and had fights with Albanians on Kosovo - again, only in Kosovo, no Albanians fired rocket on Belgrade for example.

But, you are right, other 19 countries that were part of Yugoslav Federation (Zynox, Crewix, Herutists, Petiurs, Xerdos, Quiterions, Lobotoms, Swolfs, Gerutanians, Eastern and Western Potocs, Miurs, Flambers, Unerseczhs, Bottogers, Ildioms, Vions, Seturians and Ozbocs) really had no problems with Serbs.

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MyOwnUsername wrote:

You are such a joke

Speaking of jokes...

Let me guess: Some American government agency sent a crate of Joel Chandler Harris/Uncle Remus books off to Croatia, and you and your associates assumed they were English grammar texts and have been studying them?

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swolf

I can't get why you quote from a British Parliament Debate, and especially, why you quote Tam Dalyell, who is said to have got money from Saddam, who always campaigned for the lifting of sanctions on Iraq and Libya, who opposed/opposes both Iraq wars ... . (I know him, btw :wink: )

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Swolf - yeah, you are right, you are not that stupid after all.

Although it's quite doubtfull considering fact that you are only person here not aware that almost every single person that spoke to you called you nazi bigoted racists. Most of them were just more polite then I am - luckily, I don't care much about P.C. stuff, so I think that there is no need to be polite with Nazis. Others are saying that in nice ways and only you don't understand that.
But, when I think about it, that's not so strange. If Nazi could understand that rest of the world considers his thought so bigoted and wrong then Nazi would probably try to reconsider some opinions.
Nazis never do however.

I was bit vain, damn. I mentioned (just for fun) how I destroyed you and it was not fair to the others. Wherever you are someone is there to destroy you easily. Which is not something to brag about because all you do (besides being Nazi) is repeating like parrot few thoughts, not even noticing many posts that uncover your claims as false, imaginary or pure lies.

So, continue your life full of hate and continue to spread your word. Luckily for all of us, it's so funny that list of petitioners for your cause is smaller then list everyone of us could in no time do for saving poor Hugembots that are under frequent agression of mean and evil, WMD equipped Zytriots.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

swolf

I can't get why you quote from a British Parliament Debate, and especially, why you quote Tam Dalyell, who is said to have got money from Saddam, who always campaigned for the lifting of sanctions on Iraq and Libya, who opposed/opposes both Iraq wars ... . (I know him, btw :wink: )

You don't appear to have read through the quote in question. The relevant part:

Quote:

I would not have had that conversation had not the guns of the British Army been behind me, because they were pretty rough customers.

Basically, I do not want my tax dollars being spent in support of such people or such causes.

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swolf wrote:

Basically, I do not want my tax dollars being spent in support of such people or such causes.

a) I did read all of it (in the original version)

b) I didn't know that you are a British subject.

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MyOwnUsername wrote:

nimh - I am not saying that you are not right, but I really never felt there is big number of people in Germany that try to defend Milosevic. Truth is that some western communists are biggest communists in the world (you know, like, bigger Catholic then Pope), but only person that anyone in the world heard of that I heard defending Milosevic was Peter Handke - and he has "beautiful" history of defending notorius criminals and dictators.

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I'm wondering about your opinion re Germany and the 'support' here there for Milosevic as well, nimh:

But there are plenty of people in Germany defending Milosevic. Well, it depends on what you call "plenty". Of course its just a small minority of the overall population - I already said I was talking about the hard left. And no, Walter, of course not the government - already said I was talking about the hard left. But on that hard left, I was surprised to find when I went to Germany, you do actually have a vibrant little scene of people who, if they do not heroise Milo outright, at least portray him as some kind of victim of US/NATO intrigue.

Handke is a good example - a controversial, but still famous writer. Theres papers like the Junge Welt that swolf was quoting. Freitag had its share of letters and articles too - and I dont know, but I would guess Neues Deutschland would have had so, too. There were posters and banners in Berlin when I was there. Now I'm sure thats all still clearly on the left fringe, perhaps 3-4% of the population or something, but its nevertheless plenty people - and in Holland there are none. Noone. I know of not a single writer, politician or journalist that was writing in defence of Milosevic. Might have missed one, perhaps, but never seen any. (Oh yes, the online newspaper of the United Communist Party, which proudly has 1 or 2 seats in the local council of a village in the east of the province of Groningen.)

So thats what I was talking about :wink:

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swolf wrote:

Other than that, the majority of Albanian Kosovars as recently as 1999 could as easily have been categorized as "failed assylum seekers", "illegal immigrants", or whatever you want to call them. There's no really meaningful difference.

How not?

I mean, I believe Ive heard you say that the Albanian Kosovars basically expanded their 'stranglehold' on Kosovo by having lots of children - but now you're saying that they had all illegally immigrated, from Albania I presume?

swolf wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:
That article leads to one about failed asylum-seekers.

You certainly wanted to link to something else, re "ethnic cleansing", I suppose.

The title of the article:

The Netherlands: Dutch Parliament Passes Strong Measure On Expulsion Of Immigrants

which is the basic idea and, if you read much about Holland's recent experiences with muslim immigrants, you get the drift pretty quickly. They're not talking abour heaving immigrants from China, Russia, England, or Poland. They're talking about reducing the population of muslims in Holland to a manageable level.

Oh I have nothing much up with my country's immigration policies. But you gotta get it right.

First off, we're talking of asylum-seekers that are expelled. So not people who were born here and so on, but those who came here asking an asylum status, and were denied one.

Second off, those asylum-seekers do come from all over the world, not just Muslims. Plenty of Africans, Asians.

Apart from some Fortuynist loons who are not in the government (and who have been reduced to 5% in the elections), noone is talking about "reducing" the population of Muslims. Theres a lot of silly rahrah about the number of Muslims here, but basically the only thing thats being done, apart from the expulsion of asylum-seekers and illegal immigrants, is to limit the number of new Muslims coming in. Even Pim Fortuyn said that all those who are "in" now, should be allowed to stay.

The number of Muslims here in fact still increases every year, because Dutch Muslims find their wives and husbands in their (parents') homecountry, bring their children over, etc. The government is (wrongly, imho) trying to limit the possibilities to do so. But the only people that are being made to leave the country are asylum-seekers whose application has been denied and illegal immigrants when they have the bad luck to be caught. I think theyre being way too strict, but "ethnic cleansing" it is not.

Oh, and then theres the whole pesky difference of not going around shooting and raping them and having paramilitary thugs chasing them from their towns at gunpoint and so on.

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nimh wrote:

So thats what I was talking about :wink:

Okay - I still forget the (former) SED/(now)PDS comrads and their "voices" :wink:

Completely agree to your second response - same here [well, actually not really now, but surely in two years], and same with me :wink:

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