Clintonista Gangsterism

"This country has been Nazi-fied," says Sonja Biserko, chairwoman of the Helsinki Committee for Human Rights in Serbia

http://search.csmonitor.com/durable/1997/12/19/intl/intl.3.html

Members of the Zvornik Brigade, which belonged to the Drina Corps, participated in the executions in the village of Orahovac (paragraphs 123-124 of the judgment) and in the village of Nezuk (para. 127). Members of the same brigade transported Muslims to the execution site at the Petkovci dam (para. 125), and the Drina Corps military police brought the civilians to the Branjevo farm, another execution site (para. 126).

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/07/serbia8573.htm - Human Rights Watch quoting Bogdan Ivanisevic's article from serbian magazine Danas.

Draskovic clearly said that the Serbian nazism remained undefeated. Since, as Crnjanski put it, people here forget rapidly and a lot and become shamelessly furious if one tries to brush up their memory, Draskovic was asked to specify what the Serbian nazism is, how it is manifested, what its symbols are and what parties or persons advocate it. He said nazism was in the ethnic cleansing, destruction of houses and mosques, conversion to Christianity, beating and murdering. Draskovic added that we still did not know what happened to a group of ethnic Muslim citizens of Serbia who had been kidnapped three years ago.

http://www.scc.rutgers.edu/serbian_digest/219/t219-7.htm - serbian magazine "Vreme", quoting Vuk Draskovic, today serbian minister of externall affairs.

and here is what SERBIAN magazines say about SWOLF (well, not directly, but still...)

These stereotypes include the following: Croats are genocidal, Muslims are suicidal, independent journalists and opposition leaders cooperate with foreign intelligence agencies, certain nations hate Serbs, the New Order, and the international conspiracy against Serbs. These stereotypes now have the authority of the Ten Commandments. Anyone who thinks, writes or acts outside their framework becomes a traitor, enemy of the people or a member of the ``fifth column.''

It is interesting to note reactions which followed the appearance of the ``Protocol of the Zion Wise Men,'' an antiJewish pamphlet. Somehow all the various statements made by different parties and institutions leave the impression of having been written by the same author. All condemn the above mentioned forgery, and at the same time underscore the ``antiSerbian activities of Jewish intellectuals,''

Will our shame outlive us?

http://www.scc.rutgers.edu/serbian_digest/match.cfm?urlfile=http://www.scc.rutgers.edu/serbian_digest/133/T133-9.HTM&qquery=atrocities#hit

Finally, PRECIOUS: SERBIAN journalist reports from Vukovar, Croatia, town occupied by serbian troops at beginning of the war...

For those that would rather read it later, here's link:

http://www.scc.rutgers.edu/serbian_digest/match.cfm?urlfile=http://www.scc.rutgers.edu/serbian_digest/216/T216-4.HTM&qquery=vukovar#hit

Now, story...

Vukovar - Tale of Blood
by Jovan Dulovic

VREME's reporter Jovan Dulovic was in Vukovar in November four years ago. These are his notes from that trip.

Vukovar, November 13, 1991, 17:30

Seselj and his entourage arrived. There is no real frontline here. The part of Vukovar I'm in is mainly Serb populated and has suffered very little destruction. Only locals, territorial defence men, know which streets to use to get close to the center. But even that isn't safe. Snipers are active all the time. Seselj called a meeting with JNA and territorial defence commanders and volunteers. He is in a camouflage uniform with a submachine gun on his chest. His stone faced body guards are trying to note any potential danger. It's all actually funny. Seselj and the officers and the other commanders with beards, royal army insignia and bayonets. All standing at attention and saluting him.

"We are all one army," Seselj said. "But whose?" Captain Sasa Bojkovski asked. Seselj ignored the question and continued. "No plundering, alcohol or incidents..." I can see he trusts his volunteers who handed him those lies. It's dangerous to go out into the streets at night because everyone is drunk and shooting. One night Seselj's men went drinking and threw a whole case of hand grenades out of the window.

"Your fighters are excellent," a Lt. Colonel said. "They're not my men, we're all one army," Seselj replied and continued: "This war is a great test for the Serbs because whoever gets through it wins. We have a lot of traitors so don't let your men desert unpunished. Lies are being spread about the army, traitor parties are at work. We just arrested Canak who was inciting the Hungarians in Vojvodina." Everyone listens to him carefully. Major Veselin Sljivancanin, Captain Miroslav Radic and a few more officers. Seselj speaks in half truths and explains "We accepted the concept of a Yugoslav army, not a Serb army. That's so there's no legal basis for foreign powers to interfere because this is the federal army fighting against rebel Croatians." He ends with a message: "No Ustashi can leave Vukovar alive." To most of the volunteers and para-militaries every Croat is Ustashi. I'm afraid no one is going to be able to stop them.

That evening at 18:35, Bojkovski told me that some 20 soldiers left a street they captured and that they would have to fight for it all over again. Territorial defence commander Stanko Vujanovic also complained: "We are the first to go in and capture an area, followed by others who look into every cellar and attic to see if any Ustashi are left. But they only look to see what they're going to take from the houses. They're actually a mob." "They're great cleaners," Bojkovski interrupts. "They looked into every drawer and closet."



November 14 1991, 4:30

Two bombs fell from the sky tonight just 100 meters from the house I'm in. We spent the night in the basement. Sljivancanin said Croatian light planes dropped two boilers filled with explosives which does not sound convincing because I was awake all the time and didn't hear anything except Toma Peternek snoring. Later a missile crewman told us our soldiers launched missiles at Vukovar but missed.

I'm completely confused about some units, I don't see who's in command, who obeys who. Everything is done under agreement. In one company for example, there are very few JNA soldiers and a lot of volunteers and territorials and other scum. So who can order a group of semi-drunk volunteers with blood in their eyes and guns in their hands to do anything? I saw them abusing two JNA officers the other day. They almost killed them. No one is accountable for murder here and they attack only when everyone agrees. Alcohol is obligatory. It's more than certain, at least in regard to units in the Nova Street, that their only motive for being there is robbery. There have been killings over plunder.



November 20 1991, 11:30

Horror! Hundreds of women, children, sick, wounded and the elderly are leaving Vukovar hospital. There's a scent of death and rot in the air. Across the street from the hospital are some 100 dead civilians. The bodies of the wounded who died in hospital. They dragged them out at night. Reporters hound the 10 or so nuns carrying new born babies. The nuns refused to say a word. Major Sljivancanin used the opportunity to play warrior. Two days ago he took us to a part of town where hundreds of local people left their cellars for the first time in three months. Sljivancanin stood in front of foreign reporters and used his radio to call the Croat commander of Vukovar Mile Dedakovic to a duel. First a cup of coffee before they grab their weapons. This time he held a speech in front of the hospital: "Gentlemen, we are trying to help our people and stop the killing." He didn't allow doctors from the International Red Cross into the hospital even though they had permits. "There are about 100 people in the hospital who aren't sick or wounded and they're heavily armed," Sljivancanin told the doctors. They insisted but he wouldn't allow them in. "This is a war zone and anyone can die if they don't follow the rules. We want to help everyone," Sljivancanin shouted but few listened.



November 21 1991, 8:00

Something fierce happened last night. Almost everyone is talking about the mass shooting of captured Croats and wounded from the hospital. "We killed them from seven in the evening to one in the morning on Ovcar and Petrova Gora," a big bearded man from Smederevo said over his morning coffee. "On the day of my patron saint, Archangel Gabriel. You should have heard them beg and cry and claim that they didn't shoot or kill anyone."

Dragica from Novi Sad was much more descriptive. But she told me she was worried because everyone in the firing squads on Ovcar was bragging about it. The bodies were buried with bulldozers. The killers carefully plundered their victims' bodies: rings, chains, watches. Everyone says Sljivancanin killed several prisoners to see how his new Ak-47 worked. Captain Miroslav Radic and the other company commanders agreed that a big mistake had been made, that the prisoners should have been killed with more discretion. "I didn't have enough of my own men to do this and I had to bring in drunken volunteers. Now they'll blab and this won't come out good," a territorial defence company commander said. Interestingly, none of them fear a trial but all are afraid of Croat revenge. Actually, many of them told me they weren't sure the Croats won't come back one day.

I cannot wait till I am retired or without any purpose in life so I can start publishing similar rants about Stand Wadie

shorter version:

Seselj and his entourage arrived. There is no real frontline here. The part of Vukovar I'm in is mainly Serb populated and has suffered very little destruction

He ends with a message: "No Ustashi can leave Vukovar alive." To most of the volunteers and para-militaries every Croat is Ustashi. I'm afraid no one is going to be able to stop them.

In one company for example, there are very few JNA soldiers and a lot of volunteers and territorials and other scum. So who can order a group of semi-drunk volunteers with blood in their eyes and guns in their hands to do anything? I saw them abusing two JNA officers the other day. They almost killed them. No one is accountable for murder here and they attack only when everyone agrees. Alcohol is obligatory. It's more than certain, at least in regard to units in the Nova Street, that their only motive for being there is robbery. There have been killings over plunder

Horror! Hundreds of women, children, sick, wounded and the elderly are leaving Vukovar hospital. There's a scent of death and rot in the air. Across the street from the hospital are some 100 dead civilians

Something fierce happened last night. Almost everyone is talking about the mass shooting of captured Croats and wounded from the hospital. "We killed them from seven in the evening to one in the morning on Ovcar and Petrova Gora," a big bearded man from Smederevo said over his morning coffee. "On the day of my patron saint, Archangel Gabriel. You should have heard them beg and cry and claim that they didn't shoot or kill anyone."

Dragica from Novi Sad was much more descriptive. But she told me she was worried because everyone in the firing squads on Ovcar was bragging about it. The bodies were buried with bulldozers. The killers carefully plundered their victims' bodies: rings, chains, watches. Everyone says Sljivancanin killed several prisoners to see how his new Ak-47 worked

Basically, Swolf is severely obsessed. Totally and painfully bigoted racist and chauvinist with extremely sick views about other religions and particular nations.

Luckily, with every post Swolf is revealing that more and more - so even McGentrix finally understands that (note: this is NOT offense to McGentrix, I completely opose most of his views but I respect them while there is nothing to respect in Swolf's sick posts - and if anything in my post is against TOS I am pretty sure that everything in Swolf's posts is same - so I used McGentrix only as to me best known representative of die-hard right opinion which I, once again, completely respect, although disagreeing).

And what do you have against Stand - a bonifide Union General and quasi, self proclaimed leader of the Cherokees

Finally, although nimh correctly pointed that fact that someone was nice 60 years ago has nothing to do with aynthing, Swolf's WW2 stories are also cheapest serbian propaganda or better: cheapest serbian mythology that 90% of Serbs would never sign.
First of all, EVERY republic of former Yugoslavia had Nazi government installed in WW2, including Serbia. Worst was in Croatia AND actually in Serbia - Belgrade was first european city with report of "Jewish problem solved" report, but to be honest, they haven't managed to outnumber atrocities by croatian nazi scum called Ustashe.

Second, members of ALL "yugoslav" nations fought against Nazism in large numbers, and leader of that fight was Croat, with Slovene as his "right hand". That, of course, doesn't mean that Serbs (ESPECIALLY Serbs from Croatia, Bosnia and Montenegro) were not extremely important part of it (but even person with only remainings of something that was once brain could make some opinions from that fact - yeah, Serbs were only against nazism, but they were so polite that they choosed only Croat and only Slovene that were on their side to lead them). First anti-nazi action was, by the way, in Croatia in April of 1941st (destroying power station in Jaska, near Zagreb), and first official troop of partisans, anti-nazi fighters, was formed in Sisak, Croatia. Slovenia and Montenegro had major support for partisans, and had almost none nazi supporters in their nations. Croatia, Bosnia and Macedonia had more Hitler lovers, and majority of Serbs from Serbia fought in Chetniks, that fought both against Germans and with Germans, depending of what they thought is more appropriate at the moment. They did started as "allies", but when Brits and French realized that they spend more time killing partisans then Germans they broke alliance with them and from that time Chetniks had cease-fire with Germans and could spare all their time to slaughter non-nazi Serbs, Croats, Muslims and others on their way.

only thing in all this bigoted blablaing that Swolf is right is: Kosovo IS serbian territory, and although Swolf is not quite right that Serbs were victims and Albanians dirty terrorists, truth is also not opposite - they were both very agressive to each other, but Kosovo IS and always WAS serbian territory. Only problem is that Swolf opinion is not same when it comes to Bosnia.

And by the way, every single person with average knowledge about "surfing the net" can find similar links that "prove" how Hitler was actually good guy that only protected german interests (and maybe had some faults during that fight) and how Holocaust never happened.

Haven't yet recovered from the legend-in-your-own-mind problem, huh?



Right. Basically, NATO bombed out the Serbian civilian infrastructure and it hasn't all been replaced yet, and a certain number of Serbs find themselves in the position of having to whore for their next meal.

Nonetheless, in your particular case as I recollect, talking about Croatia is more useful than talking about serbia.

I'll say it again, I am not Serbian, slavic, nor a member of the orthodox church (yet), although that could change. If I were to join the Orthodox church it would be the Russian branch of it so I could at least understand the sermons (to ect, govoriu davolno xhorosho po russki, a ni odnovo slova po srbski...)

Notice that unlike somebody such as yourself who grew up with slavic languages I use articles both in speaking and writing other western languages, i.e. I would write "the cat caught the mouse" rather than simply "cat caught mouse" as you would or "koshka poimal muishku" as you would in Russian.

The Orthodox church and the Mormons in Utah are the only large groups of people I ever saw trying to stand up to to the Clinton regime and face it down and that deserves a lot of respect in both cases, nonetheless Mormon theology is a bit too much like science fiction for my tastes.

When the s#!+ hit the fan in the balkans in the early and mid 90s I was not able to come up with any real information; nonetheless the entire idea of the US getting involved in such a business struck me as harebrained at best and nefarious at worst. I mean, if nothing else, Serbia is a slavic orthodox nation just like Russia and even if you assumed that Serbs were the villians of the world as you proclaim, it did not seem to be worth it.

When Kosovo came along, the world had entered the internet age and I made it my business to find out what I could about the situation and what I found out was horrific.

Basically what I discovered, from any number of Russian and European sources available on the web and from usenet traffic, was that pretty much everything the west has seen, heard, and read about the balkans over the last dozen years is unadulterated BS produced by the out-of-control spin machines of NATO and the Clinton regime; that the Serbs are the closest thing there is to normal, decent middle class people in the Balkans, that of the 25 - 30 ethnic groups in the former Yugoslav confederation only about three of those groups had ever had any real problem dealing with Serbs, and that those three groups, Bosnians, Albanians, and Croatians, were basically a bunch of barbarians.

What I discovered about the Serbs was that they had been the one real ally the west ever had in the Balkans during WW-II, that they had declared war on Hitler and held him for six months sending him into Russia in the dead of winter rather than on schedule but for which we could all be living under naziism today, while all other Balkan countries joined the axis. Serbs saved about 500 allied airmen bailing out after raids over Ploesti; any allied airman who ever bailed over Bosnia or Croatia got his throat cut.

Moreover, I learned that the Croats had operated a death camp so much worse than anything the German nazis had, that German nazis complained of having bad dreams for weeks after tours of the place. Hundreds of thousands of people were killed in this place and, apparently, all were being killed with knives and crude instruments.

http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/the_vatican.htm
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/sakic/press1.htm

Basically, I learned that most if not all of the charges being made against Serbs were being fabricated, including cases such as that of Trnopolja which even Joseph Goebbels would be ashamed to have been involved in:

http://www.emperors-clothes.com/film/judgment.htm


The "Racak massacre" which Clinton and Albright used as a pretext for
the NATO action turns out to be more propaganda BS:

http://www.emperors-clothes.com/analysis/meetmr.htm

and the Rambouillet ultimatum, particularly Appendix B, section 8,
which the Serbs refused to sign, turns out to look like something
which King George might have written. No nation on Earth would ever
sign off on such a thing:

http://www.state.gov/www/regions/eur/ksvo_rambouillet_text.html

It turns out that the entire case against Serbia was never anything
but a bunch of BS. There was never any "ethnic cleansing"
going on:

http://www.iraqwar.org/germanreport.htm

and there was never anything remotely like genocide going on:

http://www.counterpunch.org/biglie.html

nothing but a bunch of fabricated BS and a bunch of poor sorry
people (Serbs) having to defend themselves against an armed
insurrection supported and supplied by outside powers.


Like I say, the ONLY interest I have in any of this is a dislike for seeing my fellow Americans being played for suckers by people like yourself.

You COULD say that I don't have any love for false religions or nazi countries. That in my view doesn't make somebody a "hater" or anything like that other than in the sense in which Spiro Agnew used to call people who were against evil "negativists"...

A lot of people are "obsessed" over Kosovo and there are a number of reasons for it.

Aside from everything else, the precedent of Kosovo simply cannot be allowed to stand. If it does, the UN will shortly be over here demanding that we hand Texas and California (and the entire American southwest for that matter) over to Mexico on the same perverse basis of ethnicity being everything and things like history, sovereignty, and rightful ownership not counting for anything anymore.

bla bla bla.
your fellow Americans, as well as my fellow citizens of world are smart enough to see who is bigoted sucker here. and who is trying to play them. Religious Fanatic, Bigot and Nazi - real role model.

The funniest thing of all is that you are so blind and bigoted that you don't even see my opinion about WW2 nazi scum in Croatia, clearly noted several times. You think I care about them being Croats? You think I think of them differently then about any other nazi scum on Earth, including those that haven't commited any crimes yet only because they are not in position? But in every post they make it's obvius that they would be delighted to have opportunity? You? Now, now, who said I am talking about you? I NEVER said that you would be delighted to run a concentration camp for Muslims.

Minor problem here, swolf. There was no Washington Times article. This was an ad in the Washington Times. Not quite the same thing. On anyone's planet.

by the way, when mentioning that 90% of Serbs would never sign your crap, they would particularly laugh of your imaginary scenario where they have nothing to eat and their infrastructure still being f*cked up.

Serbia is not Iraq. That's why my serbian links are so fun to share with you. No foreign troops. No USA-puppet politicians or media.
Serbs are far far more reasonable people then your mythology would suggest.

So, as far as I am concerned, stay well and continue to share your Milosevic-Ustashe-ideology. Yeah, you are real Ustasha. Yeah, yeah, maybe they hated Serbs and Jews and you hate Islam, Bosnians and Croats, but your mind is same. So, please when you next time feel urge to refer to someone that Ustahe are bad do that while looking yourself in mirror.

ehBeth, please show me that there are normal people on that planet (unlike me) and stop even refering to this joke of a person.
But, thanks for sharing - not only that Joke uses only cheapest propaganda sites, but also making up things.
Well, nothing strange for person SO INCREDIBLY OBSESSED that he/she wrote enormously big post under "Music&Lyrics" in response to edgarblythe's TAG!

Unlike parts of Bosnia or Croatia, where ethnicity (Serbian of course) is not perverse basis, but rather history, sovereignty and rightful ownership are.

No, I couldn't. I could actually say that you are Nazi. And I am saying it once again.

Thanks, I'd not noticed that. I'll attribute it properly in future time.

This conversation's pretty much over.

oh no please, after you do your average daily number of Muslim women approached on street and offering them guns to kill their husbands (quoting Swolf - for those that missed that particularly beautiful example of Swolf's mind), please reconsider talking again with me. I don't know what will I do without it