8
   

So, Any thoughts on Bibi Netantahu's address to Congress

 
 
RABEL222
 
  5  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 02:30 pm
@Chumly,
Just a thought. Do you think that if Israel would give up all its nuclear weapons that Iran would feel safer in not developing theirs? I ask you, would you trust a madman like Netantahu knowing his past and present history?
Chumly
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 02:52 pm
@RABEL222,
Ignoring your ineffectual hyperbole, if there were no Abrahamic superstitions centered in the Middle East, and there no oil reserves centered in the Middle East, you very likely would have as much to say about the Middle East as you would Kirchhoff's circuit laws.

Do let me know when you have a so-called "thought" that isn't an obvious and intentional exaggeration.

And, at the risk of the logical fallacy argumentum ad nauseam, which in any case pretty much sadly sums up this entire thread, I re-present my prior post
Quote:
Israel is the only half-way sane democracy in the Middle East. Israel is correct to act against militant, religious fundamentalism; premptively if necessary, especially in the light of Iran's nuclear program and Middle East nuclear proliferation in general. I am with Christopher Hitchens on this one!

The Bomb in my Garden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCq514zp3V0
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 03:12 pm
There are times I wish we could say, "Okay, we give up. Have it your way. We are suspending all negotiations with Iran...and encouraging all our allies to do the same thing.

You guys are now on your own. Take care of it. Let us know when you are finished, but do not contact us before that."
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 03:23 pm
Yep, if we could put uniforms on all these experts and give them a way over there, we could as you say, let them handle it.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 03:23 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
There are times I wish we could say, "Okay, we give up. Have it your way. We are suspending all negotiations with Iran...and encouraging all our allies to do the same thing.

You guys are now on your own. Take care of it. Let us know when you are finished, but do not contact us before that."

We probably could say it.

It is likely that the reason Israel has not taken care of the problem on their own already is because the US has been pressuring them to wait and give sanctions/negotiations a chance.

But if Barack Obama can get an agreement where UN inspectors are allowed into Iran, that will do far more to dismantle Iran's weapons program than the most successful bombing campaign. So it is worthwhile to hold off any drastic action for the moment and let him try to negotiate such an agreement.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 03:27 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Just a thought. Do you think that if Israel would give up all its nuclear weapons that Iran would feel safer in not developing theirs? I ask you, would you trust a madman like Netantahu knowing his past and present history?


He may not want Iran to have nuclear technology, but Israel was quite happy to collaborate with apartheid South Africa. And they gave South African foreign minister Johannes Vorster (a genuine Nazi,) a warm reception when he visited.

Quote:
On April 9, 1976, South African prime minister Balthazar Johannes Vorster arrived at the Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem with full diplomatic entourage in tow. After passing solemnly through the corridors commemorating those gassed in Auschwitz and Dachau, he entered the dimly lit Hall of Remembrance, where a memorial flame burned alongside a crypt filled with the ashes of Holocaust victims. Vorster bowed his head as a South African minister read a psalm in Afrikaans, the haunting melody of the Jewish prayer for the dead filling the room. He then kneeled and laid a wreath, containing the colors of the South African flag, in memory of Hitler’s victims. Cameras snapped, dignitaries applauded, and Israeli officials quickly ferried the prime minister away to his next destination. Back in Johannesburg, the opposition journalist Benjamin Pogrund was sickened as he watched the spectacle on television. Thousands of South African Jews shared Pogrund’s disgust; they knew all too well that Vorster had another, darker past. In addition to being the architect of South Africa’s brutal crackdown on the black democratic opposition and the hand behind many a tortured activist and imprisoned leader, Vorster and his intelligence chief, Hendrik van den Bergh, had served as generals in the Ossewa Brandwag, a militant Afrikaner nationalist organization that had openly supported the Nazis during World War II. The group’s leader, Hans van Rensburg, was an enthusiastic admirer of Adolf Hitler. In conversations with Nazi leaders in 1940, van Rensburg formally offered to provide the Third Reich with hundreds of thousands of men in order to stage a coup and bring an Axis- friendly government to power at the strategically vital southern tip of Africa. Lacking adequate arms supplies, van Rensburg’s men eventually abandoned their plans for regime change and settled for industrial sabotage, bombings, and bank robberies. South Africa’s British-aligned government con sidered the organization so dangerous that it imprisoned many of its members. But Vorster was unapologetic and proudly compared his nation to Nazi Germany: “We stand for Christian Nationalism which is an ally of National Socialism . . . you can call such an anti- democratic system a dictatorship if you like,” he declared in 1942. “In Italy it is called Fascism, in Germany National Socialism and in South Africa Christian Nationalism.” As a result of their pro-Nazi activities, Vorster and van den Bergh were declared enemies of the state and detained in a government camp. Three decades later, as Vorster toured Yad Vashem, the Israeli government was still scouring the globe for former Nazis— extraditing or even kidnapping them in order to try them in Israeli courts. Yet Vorster, a man who was once a self- proclaimed Nazi supporter and who remained wedded to a policy of racial superiority, found himself in Jerusalem receiving full red-carpet treatment at the invitation of Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin.


http://mondoweiss.net/2013/12/alliance-relationship-apartheid
roger
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 03:38 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

https://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/11041800_10153060078905325_5133368867283168878_n.jpg?oh=c90d6152c2b848429f6f4324b08a72d5&oe=55780870


I suppose if I lived in Israel, I might consider the absence of Scud missiles to be a positive result.
Frank Apisa
 
  5  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 03:43 pm
@roger,

That sounds like someone proclaiming that Mussolini made the trains of Italy run on time.

The SCUDS were doing almost no damage at all.

And the middle east is now in turmoil.

Netanyahu was WRONG.
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 03:51 pm
I don't think Saddam Hussein used scuds against Israel before the Gulf War and the American Invasion, but did during those conflicts. Doesn't seem as though they were bombing Israel before or after.
roger
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 03:56 pm
@edgarblythe,
That was the first war in which Iraq occupied Kuwait. One annoying detail you didn't mention is that Israel was not a participant. Don't suppose that makes much difference here.
korkamann
 
  6  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 03:56 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

And the middle east is now in turmoil.


And the way the infrastructure in Gaza is so bombed out it's like a wasteland. There is something vastly wrong here. The people in Gaza are suffering indeed. And the US vetoes all resolutions against Israel. It is so very sad. I do not believe the US can cast aspersions on other countries because of human rights abuse.
izzythepush
 
  5  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 04:02 pm
@roger,
All of which justifies the ongoing persecution of the Palestinian people.


Quote:
Unicef stressed that its figures were "cross-checked to the best extent possible in the current situation... subject to change based on further verifications."


"Between 8 July and 2 August 2014 (up until 11:00), at least 296 Palestinian children were reported killed as a result of airstrikes and shelling by Israel aerial, naval and ground forces," it said.


Netanyahu will be pleased to know the 296 Palestinian children murdered by Israel gets your thumbs up.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/11007940/Gaza-Nearly-300-Palestinian-children-killed-says-UN.html
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  5  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 04:23 pm
@Chumly,
I have no idea what the hell your so called answer to my thought means but Abraham sure as hell dosent have anything to do with atomic bombs with which Israel threatens the whole of the middle east. Nor did you address Bibi's apparent insanity where the murder of Palistinians of all ages, is justified, not because they are all terroists but because they are residents of land a hard core thieving Isralie government wants for itself.
korkamann
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 04:25 pm
@roger,
Quote:

That was the first war in which Iraq occupied Kuwait. One annoying detail you didn't mention is that Israel was not a participant. Don't suppose that makes much difference here.


You are right, Israel was not a part of the George Herbert Walker Bush's coalition to oust Saddam Hussein from Kuwait during the First Gulf War. Not that they did not want to participate because Iraq launched Scud missiles (for the first time) against Coalition military targets in Saudi Arabia and against Israel. Some of the myriad countries that made up the Coalition were Arabs, and there is no way an Arab country would help Israel fight against one of its own, Saddam Hussein. Any plane flying during the first Gulf War to oust Hussein had to identify themselves. Those who could not do so would be shot down. Israel was not given the flying codes so she could not join the coalition.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  6  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 04:47 pm
@roger,
You said Netanyahu was justified to say what I quoted him as saying because he didn't like Israel getting hit by scuds. But when he said that, no scuds had been hitting Israel. That came later, after Israel helped egg the US into attacking.
roger
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 04:58 pm
@edgarblythe,
Assuming your time line is correct, he made a prediction. Right? Then the missiles started coming in. Right? Was his prediction wrong?
edgarblythe
 
  5  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 05:01 pm
@roger,
You are twisting the facts here. No scuds were coming into Israel from Iraq when Netanyahu said that everything would be nirvana if Saddam were removed. His prediction was wrong and not based on scuds.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 05:19 pm
@korkamann,
korkamann wrote:
And the way the infrastructure in Gaza is so bombed out it's like a wasteland. There is something vastly wrong here.

Not wrong at all. The Palestinians and their evil supporters chose to make war on people who were offering them peace, and they got exactly what they deserve.

Next time someone bothers to try making peace with them, maybe they should consider making peace.


korkamann wrote:
The people in Gaza are suffering indeed.

They are the cause of all the hatred and violence. It is only right that they be the ones to suffer its ravages.


korkamann wrote:
And the US vetoes all resolutions against Israel.

Not all resolutions. Only the anti-Semitic ones.


korkamann wrote:
It is so very sad.

Not for the good guys it isn't.


korkamann wrote:
I do not believe the US can cast aspersions on other countries because of human rights abuse.

Your belief is mistaken. We are able to do that.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  0  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 05:33 pm
@edgarblythe,
Did you even read what I said? Guess not. Byeeee
0 Replies
 
korkamann
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2015 05:33 pm
@edgarblythe,
Iraq was a very good nation friend to the US for a long time, ending just at the start of the first Gulf War. Even after Saddam Hussein's Iraqi army killed 5,000 Kurds in a 1988 chemical weapons attack on Halabja and some Iranians, the US remained staunch friends with the dictator. Saddam knew Israel was a client state of the US and kept hands off. Saddam did not want to do anything to imperil this close relationship between the US and Iraq which made him look like a big man in the middle east. However, once the coalition began against Iraq, Saddam Hussein said "this will be the mother of all wars" and the first nation he sent scuds into was Israel, followed next by scuds into Saudia Arabia. People in Israel did not know if Hussein intended to send nerve gas that way so the Israeli government gave out gas masks while most Israelis took cover in the basement of their homes.
 

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