8
   

So, Any thoughts on Bibi Netantahu's address to Congress

 
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2015 01:33 pm
@glitterbag,
I'm here to please, as you must know by now...
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2015 01:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
The Arabs on the other side of the Jordan will be bombed into submission during the next century or two... That's part of their plan too. Aka eternal war. Nothing too different from the OT anyway.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2015 01:56 pm
A question for the experts: Is Israels real complaint about Iran ruling the region that Iran will end Israel through military force (the claim), or is it rather that they lose to ability to use Israeli military might to cow Arabs into submission?
NSFW (view)
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2015 02:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
You don't get it if you think I'm a supporter of Israel. Israel is creating facts on the ground to make an independent Palestinian state an impossibility. They are going to turn it into little more than a Bantustanesque ghetto which provides cheap labour and relies on Israel for everything, water electricity the lot. And they're confident they can achieve this because, unlike South Africa, there are no sanctions, America will always give billions in military aid every year and will always use its veto in the UN Security Council.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2015 02:20 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
A question for the experts: Is Israels real complaint about Iran ruling the region that Iran will end Israel through military force (the claim), or is it rather that they lose to ability to use Israeli military might to cow Arabs into submission?

I'm not aware of an Israeli complaint about Iran ruling the region, or about there being any real risk of that happening. The Saudis seem worried about Iranian ascendency, but that's nothing to do with Israel (and the Saudis seem to be doing a good job of preventing it all by themselves).

Western/Israeli complaints about Iran are because they are terrorists, and because they are trying to illegally develop nuclear weapons.

Israel's goal with the Arabs is not so much cowing them into submission as it is cowing them into not attacking Israel.

Israel will take whatever means are necessary to eliminate any threat to their existence. If they can cow people into not attacking them, that is fine. If Israel has to physically destroy someone instead, that is also fine.
0 Replies
 
NSFW (view)
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2015 03:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
The latter, primarily.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2015 03:09 pm
@glitterbag,
Okay, I'll make sure to avoid your threads from now on.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2015 03:13 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Okay, I'll make sure to avoid your threads from now on.


Great, that works for me, thanks.
izzythepush
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2015 03:25 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Don't criticize what you know nothing about. Marceau is the only French comedian you guys can UNDERSTAND,


Which is another way of saying it's just not funny, because when you have to explain a joke it's so good. Btw, when did anyone ever congratulate you on a funny post on A2K?

The French film that inspired Vic and Bob, "L'homme, L'homme, L'femme (La fenetre)," doesn't even make Youtube. There's videos of Korean kids bodypopping but "L'homme, L'homme, L'femme (La fenetre)" doesn't make the grade. Even googling it only shows references to Vic and Bob.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Wed 25 Mar, 2015 05:51 am
@glitterbag,
Most welcome. I wouldn't want to ruin your splendid isolation.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 25 Mar, 2015 06:40 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Most welcome. I wouldn't want to ruin your splendid isolation.

Hey Olivier, I forced a Nazi expose his true colors on the I/P board yesterday. Mr. Green

Hammer says Hi, by the way.

Hammer isn't the person I'm calling a Nazi -- that's someone you've probably never heard of -- but Hammer has made the I/P board his home (although he seems more interested in posting pro-Russia/Putin propaganda than anything else).
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Mar, 2015 08:44 am
How Israeli spying on Iran nuclear talks might have backfired

Reports suggest that Israel spied on US diplomats involved in Iran nuclear talks. Frankly, that's not a surprise. But how Israel used that information has led to outrage.

The shocking part of reports Tuesday that Israel spied on American diplomats involved in the nuclear negotiations with Iran was not that friends spy on friends. That’s very old news to both intelligence experts and United States officials. Indeed, the US learned of the Israeli spying as a result of its own spying on Israel.

Rather, it’s the lengths to which the government of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu went in its attempts to influence Congress to kill an emerging nuclear deal with Iran.

Mr. Netanyahu and Israeli Ambassador Ron Dermer essentially treated Congress as home turf, with their aggressive actions suggesting that they appeared to think of Washington as their domestic political landscape

With a Republican-controlled Capitol Hill, it is no secret that much of Congress is closer to the Israeli view of Iran and its nuclear ambitions than to the White House view. But Israeli actions represented such a rupture with the White House and disregard for traditional bilateral diplomatic protocol that the efforts appear to have backfired.

The Wall Street Journal, which broke the story, painted an extensive tableau of Israeli intelligence gathering on the nuclear deal with Iran. Such efforts surprise no one, least of all officials in the White House. Israel considers the issue of a nuclear Iran to be of grave national-security importance, and Netanyahu has called the agreement being negotiated by the US and five other nations a “bad deal.”

One reason Israel felt compelled to ramp up its spying was the realization that it had been kept in the dark about the Obama administration’s secret talks with Iran last year.

Israel’s sense of estrangement from the White House apparently grew further early this year when the administration ended a habit of briefing the Israelis on advances in the nuclear negotiations.

But it was the way in which that information was used that has caused such consternation in Washington. Ambassador Dermer has spearheaded Israel’s efforts to get Congress to reject any Iran deal brokered by the Obama administration.

Ambassadors meet with members of Congress all the time to advocate their country’s policies and preferences for US action – nothing unusual about that. Much less common is that Dermer was born and raised in the US and is closely associated with one of the two major American political parties. Dermer became an Israeli citizen a decade ago, but as an American had deep ties to the Republican Party.

Netanyahu’s speech to Congress is widely viewed as the brainchild of Dermer, who arranged the invitation with House Speaker John Boehner.

Netanyahu’s efforts, however, now appear to have undermined the very result he had hoped for.

Republican Sen. Bob Corker, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, had crafted a bill that would give Congress a say on any Iran deal. It appeared headed for bipartisan – and more important, veto-proof – support.

But then Netanyahu gave his speech to Congress, and Republican Sen. Tom Cotton of Arkansas sent an open letter (signed by 46 other Republican senators) to Iran’s leadership warning that any deal would last only as long as President Obama was in office.

Now Senator Corker’s efforts are thought to be a couple of votes short of a veto-proof majority. Senator Cotton’s letter and Netanyahu’s lobbying in Congress are credited with discouraging a half-dozen Democratic senators from supporting the Corker bill.

The vote tally could change before a vote on the bill, which is scheduled for April 14. But the heightened tensions and mistrust between the White House and Netanyahu are not likely to be overcome that soon.

ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Wed 25 Mar, 2015 08:51 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

How Israeli spying on Iran nuclear talks might have backfired
The Wall Street Journal, which broke the story,


that the WSJ broke this really caught my ear/eye

I'm curious what's going on internally there. Could it be another sign of a split in the Republican family?
NSFW (view)
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Mar, 2015 09:57 am
@ehBeth,
I am not sure the WSJ is actually republican so much as conservative in a financial way, seems (haven't read it in a while) to be mostly concerned with profits. Perhaps having a lifting of sanctions would be profitable. Democrats by and large (at least liberal democrats) are for more social issues which helps the poor and equality for all which might be why the WSJ mostly seems to support republicans. I am just guessing.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:16 am
@revelette2,
I've been reading opinion pieces at the WSJ for a couple of decades. It's tilted pretty consistently to the social and economic right. Not 100% but old-school republicans are less socially right-wing than the Teabag brand.

The WSJ seemed (in recent years) to try to ride in between the two main groups of Republicans. The tone of this article seems to suggest a move back to their traditional market.
0 Replies
 
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Wed 25 Mar, 2015 10:21 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

revelette2 wrote:

How Israeli spying on Iran nuclear talks might have backfired
The Wall Street Journal, which broke the story,


that the WSJ broke this really caught my ear/eye

I'm curious what's going on internally there. Could it be another sign of a split in the Republican family?


I think it's more serious than a split in the Republican Party. A foreign government skipped the State department and the President in an effort to
influence Congress. As a retired DOD employee, I would be charged with espionage, mishandling sensitive information and I'd probably get a cell right next to Jonathan Pollard. Frankly, I'd deserve it, it can't be defended as the American publics right to know, or saving the US from a coup. Israel stepped in it up to their necks this time.

It's not a secret that the Israelis spy on us and we spy on them. I understand that Israel is surrounded by nations that would love to destroy them, but the US
has a strategic working relationship with Israel and devotes many resources for their protection. They are not a NATO member and we don't have a mutual defense pact with Israel. Even all the 1st party countries don't have an open door policy with each other, but we are all bound to provide emergency information to each other for our mutual well-being.

This latest incident with Israel frightens me more than the fact that Pollard was handing over intelligence. Israel is not an American citizen. They can lobby the
American Ambassador to Israel, they can harass the Secretary of State but they do not get to buy US politicians. When Pollard was convicted during Reagan's term of office, the US stopped much of the shared information until Israel officially stopped denying they turned a US citizen, and officially acknowledged and apologized for the act.

If our President is not furious with Israel right now he doesn't deserve to stay in office. We will not break ties with Israel but I do believe they need to pay a price. The democrats and republicans who allowed the Israelis to share the results of their spying have a lot of explaining to do. From a practical point of view, how could they even check the veracity of Israel's information??? They had no way of knowing if they were getting the entire story or just a few remarks out of context. It's no surprise the Americans don't trust Iran, most of us still can't get past the fact they invaded our Embassy and kept all the employees hostage. Well with the exception of the Americans who were fortunate enough to be sheltered by the Canadians. If I haven't said so before, Thank you Canada for protecting our citizens.
[/quote]
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Mar, 2015 11:59 am
@ehBeth,
astute there
0 Replies
 
 

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