Five Reasons No Progressive Should Support Hillary Clinton

@bobsal u1553115,

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

I have a lot of problems in closed shop states, I was forced to join unions that were against my interests. The Teamsters and the Steel Workers(USW) and the Auto Workers(UAW). And a very good one, the AFL of CIO.

There are no closed-shop states and nobody can be forced to join a union. And nobody joins the AFL-CIO because the AFL-CIO isn't a union - it's a federation of unions.

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@joefromchicago,

Even I may quibble with that re peer pressure, but in the meantime, JoefromChicago, I'm interested in your takes. Very.

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@joefromchicago,

I was a member of the AFL of CIO and I guarantee my union card said "AFL/CIO on it.

Ohio was and is a closed shop state.

Union Shop Rule

While the idea of a closed shop was illegal under this law, employers and unions could agree to adopt a union shop rule instead. This meant a person could start working for an employer without being required to join the union immediately. After a certain length of service, though, the person could be required to join the union.

In a union shop place of employment, the employer is obligated to fire any employee who does not pay union dues to remain in good standing with the union. The union cannot insist that an employee be fired if he or she has been expelled from the union for any other reason, though.

26 states are "right to work", the rest are closed shop.

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@bobsal u1553115,

My father was an early member of the/a film editors union (I don't remember the initials but I do remember the bills in hard times and him, an early leader, being shut out by the then top guy, but that's another story though I might recognize the name) and there was - way earlier - an important meeting the night of my birth and so he missed it, while I was born a blue baby. I liked him anyway.

But, re present politics, just guess my views re unions. I may differ with union demands or not but I'm generally sympathetic.

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@bobsal u1553115,

Quote:

Hillary is center left.

Surely you jest, Bobsal. Hillary began her career in politics as a conservative. She then volunteered to campaign for Republican candidate Barry Goldwater in the U.S. presidential election of 1964. Hillary Rodham's early political development was shaped most by her high school history teacher (like her father, a fervent anticommunist), who introduced her to Goldwater's "The Conscience of a Conservative."

Quote:

She's definitely left of Bill, but she backed a lot of Bush's crap to keep herself seen as engaged in conditions on the ground as an effective Senator and not be seen as running for higher office the whole time.

Politically, Hillary Clinton is to the right of Bill (she's conservative by nature) and became a Democrat when she married her husband who subsequently became Democratic Governor of Arkansas. Hillary Clinton is above average when it comes to personal determination and everything she has done has been to further her political aspirations.

At 67 and a multimillionaire, most women in such a position would be content to enjoy their wealth, grandchild, and just enjoy the good life. Hillary Clinton has always appeared to be in a hurry as this is very much a part of who she is. I believe she will make a good president and will have two terms unless there are health problems to contend with as she advances in age. I think she will work hard for the American people. Despite Hillary's seemingly excessive ambition, fundamentally, I believe her to be a good person. And she is heads above any of the Republican clowns running for president of the US.

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@korkamann,

Hillary loves big government, she loves war, she loves to be around big money people and have lots of money. She loves to stomp on people she does not like when she can get away with it, she believes that the rules do not apply to her. All R.

Her SOP when she gets into trouble is to play the victim. D

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@korkamann,

I don't just assume she is a good person, though I can follow your trail of pine nuts.
I don't hate her. I don't want her to be president. I might have to vote for her.

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@hawkeye10,

she loves to champion the feminist causes. D. Her election would increase the abuse of the underclass, men, which is why she will get a record low mens vote if the D's are dumb enough to nominate her.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

... she loves war...

I disagree. I do not believe Hillary to be bloodthirsty for war any more than the average person. If she agreed to invade Iraq it was mostly done to please the NEOCONS, and Jewish Americans, her most powerful constituency in New York since she was at the time a US senator from NY.

Quote:

She loves to stomp on people she does not like when she can get away with it, she believes that the rules do not apply to her.

This is Pure bullsh*t! Hillary is not afraid to defend herself and can be a formidable enemy when crossed, but she does not "stomp" on people. Where the hell did you get Hillary "believes rules do not apply to her"? Where is your justification for making such a statement? Are you capable of producing a link to confirm your assertion? Just because she can outwit the average stupid Republican does not mean she's unethical and without human decency.

BTW, there is nothing inherently wrong with being ambitious. If one is to succeed in any category of high office one will need ambition to reach their goal.

Quote:

Her SOP when she gets into trouble is to play the victim. D

Are you referring to New Hampshire when it was thought she would lose and her emotions shown through? I do not think there was anything phony about that; she dropped her reserved persona and America got a glimpse of someone vulnerable and they loved her more. I don't call that playing a victim. Hillary was merely being a human being.

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Apparently the plan is to package Hillary as "I am just a small town hick with no money but a **** who wants to be your president".

We shall see how that goes......It is rather obvious that with no credible challengers because she talked the D bosses into it she is not going to try very hard because she does not have to. She thinks. Because she has very little political talent.

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@korkamann,

Quote:

This is Pure bullsh*t! Hillary is not afraid to defend herself and can be a formidable enemy when crossed, but she does not "stomp" on people. Where the hell did you get Hillary "believes rules do not apply to her"? Where is your justification for making such a statement? Are you capable of producing a link to confirm your assertion? Just because she can outwit the average stupid Republican does not mean she's unethical and without human decency.

From what has been said about the way she treated Bills "victims" shows she has a real mean streak.

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@amender,

All her life justice and fairness have been just about the furthest thing from her mind. Which is why her handlers trying to sell her as the champion of the poor unfortunates is pretty much the dumbest marketing plan I have ever seen. The R's will pick her carcass clean.

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@korkamann,

No, I think she doesn't mind war. Pleasing neocons? that may have been happening, and so?

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@bobsal u1553115,

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

I was a member of the AFL of CIO and I guarantee my union card said "AFL/CIO on it.

And I guarantee you that you did not join the AFL-CIO. You may have joined a union that was a member of the AFL-CIO, but you weren't a member of the AFL-CIO.

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Ohio was and is a closed shop state.

When? In 1941?

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

Union Shop Rule

While the idea of a closed shop was illegal under this law, employers and unions could agree to adopt a union shop rule instead. This meant a person could start working for an employer without being required to join the union immediately. After a certain length of service, though, the person could be required to join the union.

Unless you're talking about the time you joined a union prior to the adoption of the Taft-Hartley Act, you're wrong. No one can be required to join a union as a condition of employment.

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

In a union shop place of employment, the employer is obligated to fire any employee who does not pay union dues to remain in good standing with the union. The union cannot insist that an employee be fired if he or she has been expelled from the union for any other reason, though.

26 states are "right to work", the rest are closed shop.

You are completely, utterly, 100% wrong.

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@joefromchicago,

That union meeting that was so important for my father was in late '41.

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@amender,

Quote:

From what has been said about the way she treated Bills "victims" shows she has a real mean streak.

"From what has been said...."? Rolling Eyes

Come now, you're trying to yank my chain, eh?!! You're literally quoting what others said the way Hillary behaved or said? Were you an actual eyewitness? Did you possibly observe personally what came out of Hillary's mouth at said event? If not, why then are you publicly proclaiming "shows she has a real mean streak!!! Puhleez! Gimme a break! Check back again when you have something more notably substantial.

It has been my experience that if one doesn't like another, occasionally, one's bias may cause one to color the truth somewhat. From all the research I've done on Hillary Clinton during her first go at the US presidency, I've learned she is strong-willed, mysterious, not too easy to know; because she is somewhat arcane, some simply do not like her and accuse her of being too evasive and secretive. Hillary can also be ruthless when the need calls for it. The former first lady can be tough, but that's what we Dems will need to defeat the Republicans who would steal an election in the twinkling of an eye if one is not vigilant. Remember 2000 when GWB stole the election from Al Gore!

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

she loves to champion the feminist causes. D. Her election would increase the abuse of the underclass, men, which is why she will get a record low mens vote if the D's are dumb enough to nominate her.

LOL! My, what have we here? An authentic misogynist. A man who is prejudice against women. Hawkeye, you appear to be suffering from a case of misogyny which is the hatred or dislike of women or girls. Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including sexual discrimination, denigration of women, violence against women. I recall your exact description saying "I'll grab a tit." Ugh! I found your words so repulsive.

There are other things that are horribly disgusting in your personality, like trying to get the board to accept using the word "NIG...". If you're not already residing in an institution, may I suggest you contact a shrink like yesterday.

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@korkamann,

You don't know the half of it. Check out this thread for a fuller picture of his depravity.

http://able2know.org/topic/180781-1

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@korkamann,

korkamann wrote:

Quote:

she loves to champion the feminist causes. D. Her election would increase the abuse of the underclass, men, which is why she will get a record low mens vote if the D's are dumb enough to nominate her.

LOL! My, what have we here? An authentic misogynist. A man who is prejudice against women. Hawkeye, you appear to be suffering from a case of misogyny which is the hatred or dislike of women or girls. Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including sexual discrimination, denigration of women, violence against women. I recall your exact description saying "I'll grab a tit." Ugh! I found your words so repulsive.

There are other things that are horribly disgusting in your personality, like trying to get the board to accept using the word "NIG...". If you're not already residing in an institution, may I suggest you contact a shrink like yesterday.

this thread is about Hillary, not Hawkeye, please attempt to follow the conversation. The fact of the matter is that the D's have been losing men for a long time, especially white men. I cant find the number at the moment but I think last election the rate at which white men voted D was in the low 30s%. All I am saying is that if the D's put up Hillary this time will be even lower.

The fact that you seem to be unaware that the D's have a very serious problem attracting men indicates to me that you are not informed enough on the issues that I am trying to talk about to be worth paying attention to. If you have any intelligence thoughts on the subject hidden in your brain please get back to us. Otherwise piss off.

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@hawkeye10,

Game of Thrones does indeed share excellent insights into the human predicament. Little Finger and Varys often have the "lay of the land" better than most philosophers I've read.

But, in my opinion, the most important words in your post were:

Quote:

"No way no how, unless the R's are even more stupid, which is possible."

I think they are...and by a significant degree.

Anyway, Hillary apparently is going to run; I had actually been hoping she wouldn't. But if she runs, I think she will win. And we will have eight more years of whining and moaning and groaning from the right.

We can take it.

We're strong.

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Five Reasons No Progressive Should Support Hillary Clinton

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