16
   

@MyFellowAtheists: How Big an Atheist Are You?

 
 
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 04:54 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Well, yes, people don't usually kill other people over issues they do not care about...

I'm having trouble following you here. If you're not talking about the recent killings in Chapel Hill that Edgar mentioned, which killings by atheist perpetrators are you talking about? If you are talking about the Chapel-Hill killings, notice that they were over a parking conflict. It's road rage by motorists, not ideological rage by atheists, that you need to worry about.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 05:26 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
But the "don't care" don't have any strong position on the issue, so I wouldn't call them theists or atheists.


you don't get to decide whether the don't know/don't cares consider themselves atheists or agnostics (if asked)

Quote:
Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact.
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 05:27 pm
@ehBeth,
I'll sure agree with that.

Even if I am on the soft side; I don't need an adjective.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 05:36 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

Set, I think a lot of people want to be able to have a title for themselves.

I don't care either way, for myself.


I think it's the other way around. I think people want to have titles for others.

http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutagnosticism/a/Atheist-vs-Agnostic-Difference.htm

Quote:
The most precise definition may be: an atheist is anyone who does not affirm the proposition "at least one god exists."

Although it may seem convoluted, it has a number of important elements: there is a proposition, it's not a proposition made by atheists, and being an atheist requires nothing active or even conscious on the part of the atheist — all that's required is not "affirming" a proposition made by others.


I'm not even in a place to affirm the proposed definition Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 05:41 pm
@Thomas,
Just to clarify, I am saying hate speech against religion is on the rise, and that ultimately it may lead to hate crimes. That's all. I did NOT assume that the case posted by Ed was necessarily such a case.
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 05:48 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
you don't get to decide whether the don't know/don't cares consider themselves atheists or agnostics (if asked)

Nobody is "deciding" anything here. I classify people who don't care about an issue differently than those who care. You're welcome to confuse them.
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 05:56 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Just to clarify, I am saying hate speech against religion is on the rise, and that ultimately it may lead to hate crimes.

Can you cite some examples of such hate speech?
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 05:56 pm
@Olivier5,
I care about the title to self identify; I haven't been interested for decades about theology et al, but I do care about what some religious people in my country expect to make laws about. And, in other countries.
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 05:59 pm
@Olivier5,
http://atheism.about.com/od/atheismmyths/p/AtheismKills.htm

Quote:
A common criticism which atheists raise against religion is how violent religion and religious believers have been in the past. People have slaughtered each other in large numbers either because of differences in religious beliefs or because of other differences which are further justified and intensified through religious rhetoric. Either way, religion has a lot of blood on its hands.

Can the same be said for atheists and atheism? Haven't atheists killed more people in the name of atheism than religious theists have killed in the name of their religion?

No, because atheism isn't a philosophy or ideology.


Quote:
Atheism itself isn't a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.

Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 06:25 pm
@Thomas,
I'm sure you heard that sort of language before. "Religions killed x hundred of millions of people, caused the Holocaust, killed the Indians, etc.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 06:31 pm
@ehBeth,
Who gets to define Atheism now?

I could not disagree more with the idea than atheism is 'nothing' or only the absence of something.
edgarblythe
 
  5  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 06:32 pm
Factual statements about the failures of religion are not in my book hate speech. I believe most atheists who speak out against the religious do so out of a need to self protect, rather than from hatred. Of course, since atheists are, simply, people, no blanket statement covers us all.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  4  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 06:35 pm
@Olivier5,
Why make this complicated or even argumentative? It's a simple matter: Atheists don't believe in a Supreme Being. There's no declaration or document, no Bible, and no holidays. No baptisms, bar/bat mitzvahs, no communion. Unceremoniously an atheist passes from this world, too. Their funerals don't clog up traffic.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 06:42 pm
@Olivier5,
Atheism is not a belief system - so nothing can happen "in the name of atheism".
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 06:48 pm
@Olivier5,
I can define myself.

I can offer suggestions made by academics.

Handily, the historical definitions of atheism and agnosticism (and word origins) suggested by some are similar to my own definition.

Atheism for me is a lack of belief in gods.

Agnosticism for me is a lack of knowledge of the existence of any god/s.



Don't know. Don't care if I, or anyone, believes.

0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 06:52 pm
@ehBeth,
I have no qualms with atheism, which is my position too. What i am talking about is the hatred of established religion. As much as i understand and dish out myself criticism of religion, there is a difference between criticism and baseless hatred.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 07:01 pm
@Ragman,
I agree that it's sometimes useless to discuss definitions to no end. But i didn't bring it up, in this particular case.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 07:04 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
but for sure, atheists are capable of ideologically-based hatred, just like anybody else...


how is that possible when atheism is not an ideology ?
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 07:14 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
I'm sure you heard that sort of language before. "Religions killed x hundred of millions of people, caused the Holocaust, killed the Indians, etc.

I don't consider that hate speech. But thanks for clarifying.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  4  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2015 07:19 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
Atheism is not a belief system - so nothing can happen "in the name of atheism".

When it comes to ideological zeal, we atheists are AMATEURS compared to the non-stamp-collectors.
 

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