1
   

This May Be Satire, But It's Deadly Serious to Me!

 
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jun, 2004 07:12 pm
It says different things on different pages. Typo.

Anyway, I'll stop being a distraction here; suffice it to say (for now, I need to go), I very much agree with nimh's moving target assessment.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jun, 2004 07:13 pm
The only time this target moves is when somebody is so contentuous and assinine in their remarks, I see no reason to respond at all.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jun, 2004 07:13 pm
sozobe wrote:
It says different things on different pages. Typo.

Anyway, I'll stop being a distraction here; suffice it to say (for now, I need to go), I very much agree with nimh's moving target assessment.


Says the target as she moves for the door.

Tee hee.

<looks at the scowls>

<ruuuuuuns>
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jun, 2004 07:13 pm
Fox is looking at the rasmussenreports homepage, where it does say 39%. We're looking at the actual article, where in the headline it says 3%. Typo by Rasmussen.

In any case, since the poll in question shows an actual decrease of the number of people confident that "we will succeed leaving Iraq a free nation", as she put it, the whole thing's irrelevant, anyway.

With the war on terrorism claim Fox can claim a minor point. People may have overwhelmingly lost confidence in the matter over the past two, three years, but according to Rasmussen at least, there's been a slight uptick in the past month or so. But with this "free and independent nation, example to the rest of the Middle East" thing, there's apparently not even that.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jun, 2004 07:15 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Who knows that the numbers will be in November. But I wasn't making them up Smile


Granted Razz
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jun, 2004 07:15 pm
nimh wrote:
Fox is looking at the rasmussenreports homepage, where it does say 39%. We're looking at the actual article, where in the headline it says 3%. Typo by Rasmussen.


Then below the headline it says 28%..... Shocked
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jun, 2004 07:17 pm
I honestly believe that unless we have another Abu Ghraib or a major hostile uprising, and assuming that the transfer to the transitional government goes smoothly, Iraq will become less of an issue as we approach November. And that's when we'll see those number go consistently positive and a majority of people will probably think we're doing okay.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jun, 2004 07:20 pm
Ian Baruma on Bernard Lewis
http://www.newyorker.com/critics/books/?040614crbo_books
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jun, 2004 07:21 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
The numbers fluctuate from week to week but I look at them almost every day and the positive numbers overall have been steadily coming up. For instance yesterday Bush was ahead of Kerry overall; today Kerry is ahead of Bush.


Did you see these graphs I've been making yet? You might be really interested! I've been trying to keep track of what the average of all national polls has on Bush vs Kerry and Bush's job ratings - instead of relying on any individual poll. Earlier graph further above in the thread, written updates further below. Its fascinating! (Or so I think ... Embarrassed )

Craven wrote:
Then below the headline it says 28%.....


Its a conspiracy I tell ya ;-)
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jun, 2004 07:25 pm
I read an interesting relativation of the daily RR tracking poll, btw - nothing wrong with the methodology or anything, mind you - just a level-headed reminder that, with the MoE and all, you shouldnt get all too enthusiastic or worked up about the whole, oh, now Kerry is ahead! No, now its Bush! thing. Basically, as long as either candidate's lead doesnt come above, say, 5% for more than the odd day, you gotta still consider it a deadlock. Which it has been, for months now ...
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jun, 2004 07:33 pm
Thanks for the link Blatham. I doubt many Americans (or radical fundamentalist Islamic Arab terrorists) read Ian Baruma. I have seen his stuff before and if you can get through his rather verbose and disjointed style, he usually has a lot to say.

Nimh I have seen some of those graphs and, as a dedicated polling watcher, I know how bad the numbers have been. The fascinating thing is that as bad as the news has been for Bush and as low as the approval numbers go, Kerry doesn't seem to get much bounce. That has to be frustrating for the Kerry campaign.

I think the numbers probably will fluctuate widely over the next several months, one way or other other. If they do remain as they are, the November election is likely to be another cliff hanger.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jun, 2004 04:34 am
You're right about both observations, Fox.

Meanwhile, new poll just came out today:

Investor's Business Daily/Christian Science Monitor poll conducted by TIPP, the polling arm of TechnoMetrica Market Intelligence. June 1-6, 2004. N=1,003 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.1.

"And in general, do you think the U.S. is winning or losing the global war on terrorism?"

Code:
Winning Losing Unsure
6/1-6/04 43% 40% 16%
5/12-18/04 (registered voters) 40% 34% 26%
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jun, 2004 09:36 am
So I did something I try not to do -- I got mad, and I wrote something quickly. When I wrote that, I had every intention of coming back with a long post with careful formatting and "On June 6th at 4:15 PM EST you said this" and "On June 8th at 2:00 PM EST you said this" and showing the movingness and now I just plain don't want to. But since I said it, I'll do it if asked.
0 Replies
 
JustanObserver
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jun, 2004 09:58 am
Holy crap, you guys have to check out www.theonion.com now. The new headlines are in. The best ones?

"Reagan's body dies"

"Nancy Reagan available at 82"

"Grieving Rush Limbaugh Hurls Self Into Reagan's Grave"

"Reconstruction Begins On Berlin Wall"



I don't know how they come up with this sh*t, but it just gets better and better!
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jun, 2004 10:00 am
"Reagan's body dies"

Now THAT's hilarious.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jun, 2004 04:40 pm
septembri wrote:
and, Mr. Thomas, here is a section of my post on another topic which, after you asked for information, you did not respond to:

(If you will remember, you were bemoaning the deficit)

I don't remember bemoaning the deficit in a post addressed to you. Maybe you can post a link to it?

septembri wrote:
and, Mr. Thomas, the GDP in the last two quarters has averaged about 4.4% meaning that it was as HIGH as the average GDP's of the sixties, which, as you can note above, was the best decade for GDP growth in the last fifty years.

Your conclusion being ... ?

septembri wrote:
It is clear by almost every economic measure available, that despite the economic shock of 9/11( if you don' t think there was a shock, ask the travel industry and the Airlines) and the recession which began early in 2000, the economy is on a roll.

More precisely, it is back to the growth rates of the second Clinton term. After more than two years of much smaller growth, and the loss of more jobs than in any presidency since Herbert Hoover.

septembri wrote:
You are. of course, aware that the present administration inherited a recession from Mr. Clinton, are you not, Mr. Thomas?

Not if you ask the Bureau of Economic Analysis. According to it, the recession lasted from march 2001 to (I think) November 2001. But I don't intend to nitpick on this -- I'll grant you that this recession would have happened even if Al Gore had won the presidential elections. I just don't think Gore wouldn't have lost as many jobs as Bush has.

But I confess it isn't clear to me what point you are trying to defend, septembri. Would you mind making it?
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jun, 2004 05:26 pm
Quote:
I just don't think Gore wouldn't have lost as many jobs as Bush has.


Interesting thought, would you please explain? Thanks.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jun, 2004 05:55 pm
Thomas:

Bush=

It's everyone else's fault,
not the shrub's.
He's a victim of circumstances,
not the nebbish dweeb we've come to know.
Things happened beyond his control
even though
he is the Leader of the Free World.

Jesus.(how is that possible?)

He's been mis-led
(and so have we)
by Chalabi
(even though his meetings with him were short)
so when he told those lies to us,
he believed them to be true,
so that should count for something.
(Doesn't it?)

Don't be so hard on him, thomas.
He's just a recovering alcoholic
(a good thing, but maybe not the best choice in times like these)
who still doesn't understand
that
it's okay to screw up.
('I can't think of any mistakes I've made.')????

It's just when the leader of the free world does it

thousands,


young boys 18
-19-
22,
32 year old staff sargents,
27 year old spec fives,
22 year old truck drivers,

(how can the word old be next to 22?)

they


die.

(I shoulda stayed in Texas and been Governator for LIFE,
why am I here in the middle of it all?
I shoulda left McCain alone
and let him beat me when I had the chance,
god'am
this life is hard.)


And life presses hard against our little man
and secretly he wishes
for it all to be over
s0
he can go back to buying landleases and stripper wells
in Concho County
where he feels like\\
he belongs.

The fun is done.
The Party is over done.

and so it goes.

Now wait
here comes the thunder of the defenders of the shrub,
"He's wonderful, he's got ideas,
it's not his fault......"

Translucent supports for
a transitive man.

Let it
and him
go.


Joe
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2004 04:27 am
Brand X wrote:
Quote:
I just don't think Gore wouldn't have lost as many jobs as Bush has.


Interesting thought, would you please explain? Thanks.

The explanation is that this was a mindo. I do think Gore wouldn't have lost as many jobs as Bush has. And the explanation for that is that I expect he wouldn't have spent $300 billion a year on permanent tax cuts focused on the richest decile of the income distribution. Instead, he would have spent a somewhat smaller amount of money on temporary financial relief for the states, extending unemployment benefits, and maybe throw in a few tax cuts for middle class and poor people, who would have been likely to spend it. That's what liberal academic economists would have prescribed. Bob Rubin and Lawrence Summers, who designed most of Clinton's economic policy, were such economists. My best guess is that a president Gore would have held on to them, or at least their policies.

Why would such a program have produced less unemployment than George Bush's tax cuts? Because the 2001 recession was caused by a demand side problem, not a supply side problem. On the supply side, productivity kept growing at the same accelerated pace which it had been growing at since the mid 90s. The problem was that too few people bought the fruits of their increased productivity, causing the sustained productivity boom to result in reduced employment instead of increased output.

The best case that can be made for George Bush's kind of supply-side tax cuts is that they increase productivity, which was growing just fine in 2001 and after. The best case that can be made for the kind of policy liberal academics that it would have increased aggregate demand, which was a a constraint to GDP growth in 2001.

And that's why I believe a president Gore would have lost some jobs during the recession, but not as many as President Bush did.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jun, 2004 08:19 am
I wonder how many jobs a President Gore would have lost if 9/11 had happened eight months into his presidency?
0 Replies
 
 

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