This May Be Satire, But It's Deadly Serious to Me!

Perspective? You call a veteran's website with Oliver North as the second signatory on a sign-up list perspective? Oliver North, who made deals with terrorists, who traded arms for hostages? You call a website of water-carriers for Bush with Sean Hannity pimping his book "Deliver Us From Evil", perspective? A website that uses Sozobe's image in vain is perspective?:wink: Were you up all night and suffering from sleep deprivation?

Sorry, but I just cannot see how your links provide any perspective at all to the list that Blatham provided. Just because some veterans support Bush and his war is not a sign that all or most do. As a 20 year veteran myself, I certainly do not.

It is just as easy to find websites of veterans, military, and families that hold the opposing opinion. Does that mean anything? Probably not. Does Blathams list mean something? I think so.

Support the Troops, Oppose the Policy
Bring Them Home Now.
Center for Defense Information
Cpeace.com
Military Families Speak Out
Soldiers For The Truth
Veterans For Common Sense
Veterans For Peace
Vietnam Veterans Against The War
Vietnam Veterans Of America
Vietnam Veterans Of Amer. Found.

Ooh, I like the my image in vain part... :-P

Conserva Babes You ought to sue for defamation of character.

Did someone drop drugs in the liberal water cooler today? there seem to be an abundance of posts that are just plain ignorant today.

Mesquite, when you show me the credentials of ALL the people on the infamous 'bash Bush' list, we can discuss whether Ollie North negates all those other names. The point I tried to make is we can find link after link after link to website after website after website supporting one position or the other. And what does it prove? Absolutely nothing other than what we can determine talking to each other. Some of us hate Bush. Some don't. Some disapprove of everything Bush has ever said or done. Some don't. Some think anybody but Bush is the answer to the current problems. Some of us think we could do much worse, etc. etc. etc.

My comment that it would be really cheesy for the GOP to come up with a similar list is because too many who are speaking out in support of the current administration and its policies are in active service. To ask them to sign a campaign ad would appear coercive and would be improper. And to go out and get signatories of ex-militiary and ex-diplomats, which I am convinced they could do by sundown, would look too much like 'so there'.

Poll Hollywood and you're going to find a vast majority of Democrat sympathisers. Poll any average Nascar crowd, and you'll find a vast majority of GOP sympathisers.

The final proof will be in the vote in November.

(edited to correct one of probably many spelling errors.)

And, you are proud of this fact? This should tell you something right about the GOP right there.

Cycloptichorn

Oh, I didn't realize you got your intellectual stimulation from movie stars Cyclop.

Wonder how the two groups would stack up as far as education goes?

Jessica and Nick are fine examples of Hollywood...

I'm sure the Hollywood group would stack up way better in education, heh.



In some cases, I do. Certainly a thought-provoking movie on the rationalizations of Nazi leaders in WWII (such as I watched yesterday) is more stimulating to the intellect than watching cars go around a track several hundred times.

Mostly though, I get intellectual stimulation from reading and personal study.

I don't think you can sucessfully argue that the intelligence of the average nascar fan is overly high. Thus, it tells you something about the GOP right there, as per my initial statement, and yours.

Cycloptichorn

But then again the average businessman will have a higher IQ than the average....

Trying to make a case for more smart/less smart in the way you are doing it makes no sense.

Junk pop bands aren't exactly the brain surgeons of the world.

Pot heads and hippies aren't usually either...

But those generalizations make little sense, each political ideology usually has their demographic segments in both "smart" and "dumb" segments.

I put that in quotation marks because the type of generalizations we are dealing with right now make this almost meaningless.

Anywho, if you think the Nascar crowd is representative of the right perhaps you have a bias showing that makes you want to ignore the business crowd.

And if you want the academic world to be representative of the left perhaps you have a bias that makes you want to downplay the uneducated masses among the left (there are certain groups, say hippies for example).

Well I don't know. My two kids and their spouses are absolute Nascar nuts. One has a PhD from Stanford, her husband has a master's degree in civil engineering; our son has a master's degree in mechanical engineering and his wife is finishing up her degree after raising our granddaughter. I would presume their friends, many of whom also enjoy Nascar, have comparable educations, as do most of the drivers and the guys in the pits many of whom have engineering degrees.

Want to compare this group with the average movie star, many of whom never finished highschool?

For the record, I am not particularly a Nascar fan.

I believe you may be on to something McG. I saw your posts on the sarin thread. Maybe sunspots?

Yeah, I have to keep replying to those whacked out posts by others... It is a real chore some days, but thanks for the encouragement. I do what I can to lead you guys into the light...

While I'm sure that there are many intelligent people who like Nascar (just as there are many unintelligent people who like 'hollywood' as you put it) I would think that a simple panning of the crowd at a nascar event would show you that we aren't exactly dealing with a group of professors here.

It's not like I've never been before - one of my second cousins works on a pit crew, and I've gotten free tickets from him a couple of times. I'm not trying to say anything against the Nascar crowd, other than the fact that it closely resemebled the crowd I saw last time I went to the Texas State fair. And that's not exactly who I would want deciding the policy of my country.



Now, let me ask you a question, and I want you to consider before you answer: why did you feel it neccessary to distance yourself from Nascar fans if they are a group of intelligent, well-informed voters? You made a special effort to go back and make sure we knew that, almost as if there was a part of you that didn't WANT to be associated with it.... if I'm completely wrong on that one, I certainly don't mean any offense, btw.

Cycloptichorn

Cyclop writes:


How very open minded, inclusive, and nonjudgmental of you.

I didn't distance myself from the Nascar crowd. I happen to be pretty fond of my children and their families and I like their friends very much. I don't have the level of formal education many (most?) of them have. Maybe that's why I honestly can't get too excited about Nascar?

Here's a personal anecdote about NASCAR, for what it's worth. I went to the Pepsi 400 race a few years ago on July 4th, in Daytona beach.

Tons of people get there the night before and camp out in the infield, which we did. That night was like the big redneck bash ever. Empty cans and bottles of beer everywhere, fireworks of all kinds being shot off recklessly, groups of beer-bellied drunk guys either yelling "show us yer tits!" or holding up their home-made "Show us yer tits" signs to every girl that walked by (with a fair amount of success, I might add), and just blasting the southern rock all night long. Then, after sleeping in the bed of a pick-up truck all night, the hick next door to us decides he's gotta hear the morning show on some redneck yeehaw radio station at 6:00 AM, AS LOUD AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE.

My opinion is that many of them were ignorant yahoos, but boy, do they know how to have a good time.

If that is so, then what is the point of writing an additional post specifically saying you are NOT a fan of Nascar? Just asking. You can see how it looks to someone else..

The last time I went to an event at Texas Motor Speedway, an occurance stuck out in my mind:

The two guys next to me who spent about an hour talking about the 'glass solution': reduce the entire middle east to one sheet of glass, solve the problem permanently. One gem I particularly recall: 'didn't those ragheads know we would blow the sh*t out of 'em if they attacked us?' which was answered with 'Well, Sadaam obviously didn't think about that before he flew those planes over here into the twin towers.'

I spit my Dr. Pepper all over a guy sitting in front of me when I heard that one. It's hard to apologize for doing that while trying not to laugh your ass off.

The conversation then switched to the new topic of the day, I kid you not, 'why are black people from Louisiana more worthless than those from Texas?' The thing that really got me was that there was no argument at all that they weren't worthless, just a question of degrees.


Those two guys stuck out, but the same thing could be repeated over, and over, throughout the entire place. I try not to be judgemental, but it was ridiculous. I was struck by the sheer number of people who, for lack of a better word, made up the bulk of lower-class white society in America who showed up for the event.

The best, though, was the bumper sticker in the parking lot that said 'America - like it, or we'll kill you.' That was my favorite. I don't think the guy who had it was joking at all.

Not the group I would pick as electoral college members, for sure.

Cycloptichorn

Okay, okay. I agree a Nascar race is probably not the world's most culturally classy affair. I actually have never been to a Nascar race but am forced to watch when many member of my family are in the house.

But seriously, don't 160,000 folks or so go to one of those things? Maybe all the racists buy cheap seats. I dunno. But I venture the people you reference are probably not representative of all. If you knew my commie, pinko, liberal wacko daughter (whom I love dearly), there is no way she could be described as either racist or undereducated.

And while I wouldn't have appreciated their remarks either, even in fairness to those guys you reference, ignorance isn't owned only by Texas redneck bigots.