Water Softeners - What are the differences in brands?

The Fleck 5600 is no good, I agree, but the 5600 1/2 is a very good bargain for its money, and all three of these gentlemen know it, so why they're not recommending it and helping you install it is beyond me.

Why are you three so selfish with your knowledge, ability and skill? Can't you see this poor sod needs help?

Come on! Give him a hand!

The 5600 is the most popular valve in the world. It is a good control valve. It has few to no bells and whistles and is very difficult to impossible for an owner to repair if they need to replace the seals and spacers. The 2510 is impossible without the special Fleck tools.

Replacing a control valve with another brand usually costs 2/3 to 3/4 the price of a new softener purchased online. For DIY repair with no special tools required and variable reserve, soft water brine refill and substantial computerized usage history and troubleshooting and ease and speed of repair with the lowest parts prices of any control valve, you can't beat the Clack WS-1 control valve.

LOL! If you have difficulties servicing a Fleck 2510 you are doing something wrong.
Special tools are not needed to replace the piston, seals and spacers on a 2510 valve.

I could also sell Clak valves, but prefer the reliable performance of the Fleck 2510 SE.

Narrow down the problem please
Thank you for responding,

Since we have the long Labor Day weekend, I am going to call the RainSoft dealer Tuesday and see if I can coerce them to service the unit correctly. As I read through the multitude of posts dealing with RainSoft valves (which I should have done first), me thinks I will try to resurrect it since it appears to be an ?'O' ring problem.

If the dealer refuses to respond, maybe someone can narrow the problem down for me. Here are the specifics:

I have a model AM24CT circa 1991.

I can hear rushing water and see it exiting into the sump pump during the backwash and flush cycles.

During the Brine cycle there is no noise except for a trickle of water going into the sump pump and no brine is being taken from the brine tank.

There is no water being returned to the brine tank during the salt cycle.

The RainSoft tech did replace the TriGard component and there is water in it but the ball valve doesn't move at all during any of the cycles.

So to my untrained eye, the valve that opens to send water through the small tube from the valve unit to the TriGard must be clogged or defective.

Do any of the experts have a plan of attack for me except for burning down the house?

Happy Labor Day,
Jim

Replace the O rings on the piston and brine injector - check function and report.

Replace O Rings
Thank you H2O_Man,

Referencing your comments in:
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=100827
will help with the call to the dealer.

I will call the dealer with this amunition and see if they are going to stand by their product or if I am going to have to get my hands dirty.

If I do have to replace the rings myself, should I use a silicone dielctric grease on the rings?

Jim

Re: Replace O Rings


Use a silicone grease that is approved for potable water. Usually the container will have an "NSF" logo and approval or it will specifically say "approved for potable water".

One that I know of is...



click for specs here

Sold at Lowe's

-Update-

I called RainSoft this morning and spoke with the service manager. I explained the problem to her and they are sending out a different tech tomorrow morning.

Hopefully he will resolve the problem and not give a sales blah-blah pitch that they no longer service this model any longer. I will post the outcome.

Jim

It's FIXED!!!!!!!!!!!
--------WOW--------

Sean (the RainSoft tech) arrived at 9:15 and I explained the problem to him. I told him that it was suggested to me by an expert in the field (guess who that is?) that the ?'O' rings be replaced on the piston and brine injector.

Very nicely he said he had worked on these models for the past 4 years and never had to replace the rings on the brine injector.

Sean was extremely polite and never said anything about trading up to a different model or that the unit was obsolete and no longer being serviced.

We offered him a cup of java and he declined but asked if he could bring his own coffee down the basement. Now that is REALLY polite.

We let Sean get to work uninterrupted and about an hour later he said the system is fixed . He had a long plastic tube in his hand that was heavily soiled with iron and said to me "he had to apologize". It was the brine injector tube he was holding. He shook it back and forth and said, "it's suppose to rattle, there is a small ball inside the tube that is frozen and the ?'O' rings are shot too… and see how it is nicked here?" He replaced the brine tube completely along with the rings on the piston in less than an hour, took a new water test and gave us some suggestions on how to keep our old dog running like a new puppy.

We had some other questions about the system and he was very thorough in his answers and the reasoning behind them.

Since we live in the Pine Barrens of NJ and soil is almost pure sand with heavy iron deposits and a PH level around 4.0, we are certainly ecstatic about having our system back.

I would especially like to thank H2O_Man for his expertise. I don't know if the ammunition he gave me made a difference dealing with RainSoft but I am sure it would have made a difference if I had to tackle the project myself.

As per RainSoft, I had a bitter taste in my mouth at first after reading all the bad hype posted on the forums. Last year when the tech was here it took him 3 hours to do the yearly PM on the unit and the tech that was here last Saturday was done under an hour and the conditioner was not working correctly after he finished. The tech who I will request or better put DEMAND in the future will be Sean, the polite, courteous, knowledgeable young man with a nice smile and upbeat attidude who knew what he was doing and not afraid to state that he made a mistake when intially touble shooting the problem. I also was quite surprised that Sean had the injector unit in stock on his truck, I guess this franchise stands behind their product.

We all know that there are good and bad techs and I guess good and bad franchises in the RainSoft organization too. I no longer have that bitter taste and look forward to that silky feeling again after a warm shower.

Again, thank you H2O_Man…. you're the best,

-Jim-

Hi new to forum and water softeners also on a budget, didn't know if this was OK to post here but just bought a house with well and am concerned with water quality. Water softener in this house has to be replaced, have found a used supposed to be 1 1/2 year old rain soft amc 75 cv system which I can pick very inexpensively, have not been able to find nay info on it. Can anyone point me to where I can?
Thanks
Larry

Re: It's FIXED!!!!!!!!!!!


I'm glad it worked out for you Jim






Larry, I don't advise anyone buy a RainSoft system new or used.

Have your water tested by a local independent H2O specialist and get some estimates.
Post the test results here and get some recommendations.

I hope that helps.

Thanks for your quick reply, The Gilligan man is going to give me an estimate some time next week when I take possession of it. He told me he lives in subdivision that the main problem with area well water is mainly iron and sulfur? I asked worst case scenario He said with reverse osmosis and water conditioner approx 6200.00. Ouch not on my budget.
So I am not sure I even want him to come out. Have had bad experience's with salesman in the past. Was thinking of getting water samples and sending them off somewhere to get tested so I don't get any sales pressure.

You can find certified independent labs here... http://www.epa.gov/safewater/labs/index.html

Hit the Yellow Pages and call at least three local water treatment pros who are familiar with treating wells. Make sure you call at least one of the big dogs like Kinetico or Culligan for comparison and at least a couple independent pros. DON'T TELL THEM YOU HAD YOUR WATER TESTED.

Give each an opportunity to offer suggestions and provide you with a quote to meet your water treatment needs. IGNORE ANY THAT DON'T TEST YOUR WATER THEMSELVES as they can't speak intelligently to water treatment without knowing what needs to be treated.

Ask lots of questions. Softening the entire house or just the water heater (bad idea)? Warranty, parts & labor or just parts, how long and on exactly what? Install, permits required, licensed plumber? Routine maintenance and costs? Do they stock parts? Response time for emergency (water leak) calls? If they don't explain things to your satisfaction that is a good indicator of how you'll be treated after the sale.

After they've gone use your water test to compare with their's. Are all your treatment needs being addressed?

<b>Ask your neighbors if they have any water treatment experiences. They might tell you who's good or who to avoid</b>.

Living on a well is more work than on a water system. YOU are responsible for making your water nice and making it safe.

Come back here and post the specific recommendations and hardware components with the costs and some will give you their honest opinions while others will try to sell you a softener. :wink:

Thank you for the info

farefax, since you don't want sales pressure and I suspect you don't want to have 3 or more salespeople come out to pressure you into buying from them..., you might consider becoming a DIYer.

You may not want to buy proprietary type equipment like Culligan and Kinetico because you can't get parts or service from anyone except their local dealer. Plus you already have an idea of their prices and I say you should call Culligan and cancel that appointment.

Also, well water is no more difficult for a water treatment dealer than 'city' water is; in most cases the exact equipment is used for both. The difference is that with well water, there can be iron and H2S and manganese etc. that is not found in 'city' water because those things have been removed already.

Any dealer can tell you what types of equipment you may choose from and their prices, and they will know how to apply them without having to come out to your home to do their own testing.

I say stay away from any that insist on having to come out to your house first... BTW, they always say the have to so they can test your water.

All they need to size equipment for you is for you to give them the water test data you get from having your water tested anywhere you choose and answers to questions they ask you.

That's true of your local H2O treatment specialist, but well water is very difficult for the internet seller.

You do want your water tested in your home while you watch and you want the installation location checked out.

HTH ~

Question you said you would not advise buying a rain soft system new or used this one is a model amc 75 cv system and date on label says 1/01/06 why is it not a good unit, they are selling for 300.00 It has the salt tank also it is in place and operational.

Does it have a digital dispaly? If it does and it's fully functional $300.00 is not a huge risk.

No digital display looks like rotary. After doing some more reading , I think it my be to small for a 4/2 it says 3400 grains @ 3.0 lbs of salt 28100 grains @ 11.2 lbs of salt. I am however concerned that I have not been able to find anything on this model on line. I have seen some of your post and it seems you know quite a bit about what you are taking about, with that said you said what I understood as no rain soft. Not putting words in your mouth just what I took it as. What equipment would you be looking at with a small budget say around 2500.00 This would also need to have some sort of water drinking filter (reverse osmosis) for a 4/2 with pool? Don't know if pool makes a difference. The house is 2500 sq feet. My main problem is that this is a house that needs allot of work. It
needs roof AC flooring appliances water system Filters etc. But priced close to 35% below neighborhood in well established neighborhood. Houses range from 285.00 to 1.6 million. So budget will be stretched with all the work that need to done before I move in. Almost like a flip. lol

Proper Junking of a Master Conditioner Water contraption
This Master water thing came with the house when we bought the place three years ago. The seller at the time. showed me this water thing and seemed all excited about it. Despite bragging about it, the idiot had lost the instructions and had no information.

There's a large white plastic tank with water in the bottom that holds rock salt. Then there's this thin tall blue tank with a unit mounted on top. Has some sort of digital control with a pop out wheel switch having settings such as BACK WASH and WATER CONDITIONING. There are two copper water pipes running into the control head.

A couple of times I dropped some rock salt into the white plastic tank. Didn't even know there was a digital control anywhere until we bumped into the cover of the unit while installing a new hot water heater which shares the same closet in the utility room. One day the pipes running into the Master water tank was sweating so I shut off the valves and unplugged the control. Enough is enough of this useless nonsense. That was two -years ago and there is no noticeable difference in the drinking water or washed dishes. We all have deep spring fed well water in the region of northeast PA and non of the neighbors has one of these rock salt machines.

A few months ago, I went on-line and downloaded an instruction book from the company. Non of this makes any sense and looks to be mostly a sales blurb. At least in our case, this apparatus seems to be a hyped remedy for a problem that does not exist. Besides, if there are natural minerals in the ground water then so be it. My grandparents lived to nearly 100 years drinking from their well without the water being filtered through salt or gas or whatever. So . . . this stuff is being removed and tossed into the trash. Just need to know the proper disposal for the tall blue gas tank item. What's inside that thing? Really don't like having that tank inside the house and want it gone. Reminds me of an Acetylene gas bottle. Now for a nice cold glass of natural artesian well water right from mother earth.