An Intellectuals appraisal of Reagans legacy

Well, you're mistaken about that also, Pumpkin.

We've got plenty of heroes.

Of course, the last time a Democratic icon passed away, the Republicans unrelentingly whined about his funeral service being a 'crass political rally' until the corporate media finally latched on the idea.

I haven't seen or heard a single criticism of this week-long orgy of adulation, or Bush's attempts to use it for political advantage, by any of the Washington Democratic representation.

But hey, show it to me if you find it, please.

Shame just doesn't seem to be in the potential for conservatives any more.

And that's a shame.

You must be listening to very different news reports than I listen to PDiddie. But I'm going to bed.

Good night, Foxfyre.

The links you provided made no mention of Reagan "pushing for funding". The funds mentioned in the article could have easily come from normal research grant processes. The link did have this quote though.

Sorry Foxfyre, but that sort of thought process does not a great leader make IMHO.

Hey all

Pop your browser's to Amy Goodman's Democracy Now program!

She's doing a series called "Rembering The Dead" on some of Reagan's victims.

P:

Where'd 'ya get the strip.

Thats too funny - lambasting the "distortions" that "Reagan-hating liberals" do, and suggesting a "former Reagan speechwriter and author of How Ronald Reagan Changed My Life" as a more objective alternative!

Sorry, Fox, no offence, but that was funny ;-)

Meanwhile, now I'm curious. PDiddie wrote, "I haven't seen or heard a single criticism of this week-long orgy of adulation, or Bush's attempts to use it for political advantage, by any of the Washington Democratic representation", and Fox replied, "You must be listening to very different news reports than I listen to". So did or did Democratic Congressmen not criticize any of the Reagan tributes this past week? Now that should be an "easy challenge" to find out ;-)

Don't tell the truth around here or you are a hate filled liberal. All together now, "Here comes Reagan walking on the water
Here comes Reagan walking on the water ..."

PDiddie

that was funny. do you know where you got it?

http://www.kirktoons.com/

Here it is, revel

Thanks edgarblythe

I am glad that you make time to contribute here.

It wasn't funny.

The Liberal version of truth is far different from the Conservative version of truth apparently.

Harshly worded it was, but which of the contentions in the cartoon exactly are you saying is a lie?

I'm making a rare venture into the Politics forum. It's unusual that the Politics forum should repel so many political people.. but anyway:

I was thinking about why death should change mediocre people (like RR, to be honest) into Idols, and complete sadists into normal people; but I guess that that is a more philosophical, rather than political, question.

Wow, Edgar, the article's good; the first thing that I thought when I heard that he was dead was: 'poor Ronald. He was too good for this life! why is it the good always die young?'

As for the whole popularity debate; teenage sex, and American idol, are both popular and widespread, just as RR's votes were; does this mean that all three were good.

Nimh wrote:


Several--Gebhardt, Daschle, and two or three others I can't remember names--have been quoted giving their memories of Reagan and couldn't resist adding comments about burgeoning deficits, etc.

Also the news has reported Tom Daschle and Bill Clinton's comments that they thought they should have been invited to speak at the funeral.

Cite, please.

His name is spelled Gephardt, by the way.

Can't cite since they were on television and radio and that's pretty hard to copy and paste.

But you didn't cite a source where "nobody from the Democratic representation" has had anything negative to say about Reagan either.

One thing I'm curious about though. If you say Reagan-loving Conservatives, I would take that as a compliment. Why do you guys take exception to 'Reagan-hating liberals' when it refers to a writer, not directly to any of you? Do you deny there aren't some who hate him with a passion?
Take that political cartoonist Ted Rallwho publicly stated he hoped Reagan was turning a nice crispy shade of brown now.

Again it is mystifying to me this need to smear and villify a man before he is even in he grave. But I guess it's a free country.

Ted Rall is a smelly turd left on the rim of the liberal toilet bowl. He should be ignored until flushed.

Hmmm, OK. That would actually explain the posts of both of you on this - perhaps there is no contradiction here.

I mean, basically you're saying that in your view, the fact that Gephardt or Daschle, in commemorating Reagan, recounted both the positive and the negative aspects of his legacy, constituted a criticism of the whole commemoration process (this "week-long orgy of adulation" in PD's words) itself. Whereas PD, I'm sure, wouldnt consider it as such at all, and would maintain that no Dem Congressman has come out saying that there shouldn't be all of this adulation, or that Bush is wrong to capitalise on it, or that Reagan didn't deserve it, etc.

Unsurprisingly, I'm on PD's side - I didn't realise that one shouldn't mention anything negative whatsoever when commemorating the legacy of a late politician - I mean, newspapers editorials also always weigh the good and the bad when somebody prominent dies. But in any case, the different interpretations would explain why according to him, no Dem has spoken up about the political abuse of the man's memory yet, while according to you, they were out there on TV spoiling the commemoration all the time.



You can't cite "nobody" ... :wink: ... you can't prove the absence of something.



Probably because it implies that a stated opinion comes forth from pure emotion rather than from observation or analysis. As if it's some mere irrational rant. Take that cartoon above, for example. You may see hate. I see a list of concrete enough allegations. Saying it's just inspired by hate allows one to ignore the arguments put forth. I mean, the Reagan administration did triple the national debt, did back Saddam, and did trade arms for hostages in order to divert the money to the Contras. You may argue about whether the Contras were "drug-running death squads" or not (I say, mostly aye, you won't) - but then you're already talking argued opinions, not some kind of bottomless irrational passion.

I find the cartoon quite clever that way, actually. It asks us the question why a people is willing to forgive a leader most all his crimes, as long as he is an infectious enough communicator. You may disagree about the crimes listed, but I'm sure you'll have had much the same thoughts while frowning about Clinton's reelection.

And yeah, I would be offended by "Clinton-loving liberal" in this kind of context as well - because of the same thing. It reduces a position you take to irrational emotion, ignoring its argument.

Nimh, I have no objection to people stating what they believe was wrong with Reagan or his eight years in office. That is a legitimate debate. But all things should be done decently. Reagan along with being one of most popular presidents in history was also one of the most villified and hated by the liberals. There are reams of writings out there from people saying so.

All I'm saying is this is not the time or place. It would have been unconsionable for the media or Republicans/conservatives to have been recounting Kennedy's sins during his funeral. It didn't happen.

I would think those of us 40+ years later would have the same sense of decency and leave the negatives alone for awhile as most of the nation mourns somebody they loved and admired.

Having an open mind is a two way street. In recent years my political leanings have become liberal. However, I still honor and respect President Reagan. He did wonderful things to make the world a better place. His policies brought freedom and changed the lives of millions of people in a positive way. He and Nancy set a fine and genuine example of what two people can accomplish when they truly love one another and work together. I refuse to apologize to my liberal friends who can't understand my devotion to President Reagan, the sadness I feel that he has passed away and the fact that I celebrate both his life and his accomplishments.

It is a sad commentary that some small minded people want to deny those who are mourning the loss of someone they consider a great leader and statesman the opportunity to express their loss.