25
   

1 in 5 women get raped?

 
 
glitterbag
 
  0  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 11:57 am
@Olivier5,
That's the truly baffling part of this crime. With all the cell phones, couldn't somebody call the police. Especially why didn't some of the women try to stop this. Most beaches during spring break have security beefed up because crowds of college students get rowdy. Normally, they try to keep the kids from getting into fights, dangerous behaviour and generally try to keep some order and prevent damage to businesses. This is the first time I have ever heard of a woman being raped in broad daylight in the middle of a crowd. It's animalistic.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 12:05 pm
@glitterbag,
Spring break is one drunken orgie, what clue did anyone have that something was wrong? And remember the state went after these guys because of cell phone video, and the females statement that she does not remember the event. That was all it takes under the new rape laws, she might have fucked 30 guys that day under proper consent arrangements, and then drunk herself into a stupor and continued to **** willingly, but none of that matters to the state, because at some undefined point she lost the right to consent.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 12:24 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
More importantly, why did nobody call the cops???

Bystander apathy of that sort can have many explanations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

And it's not clear in this particular case how many people actually witnessed what was taking place, beyond the immediate vacinity. The area of the beach where this occurred was, I think, behind a cabana of some sort, the young woman was on a beach chair, and she was surrounded by a group that included the three men who sexually assaulted her.

The sexual assault prevention programs on campuses now include helping people to recognize when intervention is necessary, training bystanders to intervene, and teaching them how to intervene, and that does seem to be an effective and necessary strategy. But only a small percentage of students seem to become involved in these programs.

Think how brazen these college student rapists were to feel they could commit these acts in a public place, and to feel even safer in doing it because they knew the young woman was so incapacitated she couldn't know, or recall, what was being done to her. It's not difficult to imagine how much more frequent sexual assaults must be on campuses, in locations that are a lot more private.

Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 12:30 pm
@firefly,
I don't "imagine" crime, as a rule. It's too easy to imagine all sorts of things that only reflect one's own fears or obsessions.

If that was done in a public place and nobody reacted, everybody there is guilty IMO, whether they are boys or girls. All it takes is a call to the police.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 12:39 pm
@glitterbag,
Pointing this out won't make me very popular... but I will point it out anything.

We have a brief CNN report based on a video and a vague set of statements from the police. There has been no statements from witnesses or from the alleged attackers. There aren't very many facts here.

Yet there is an awful lot of speculation being presented as facts. This discussion (without so few real facts) is rather silly.

The phrase "rush to judgment" seems to be appropriate.

firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 12:47 pm
@hawkeye10,
There is no indication, yet, that this young woman was drunk. She alleges she might have been drugged.

You're overlooking the fact that the three men involved in the incident knew they were assaulting an incapacitated individual--they knew she wasn't consenting, and they counted on her not recalling or reporting what took place. That can be heard in the recorded audio of their conversation on the video table.

What "new rape laws" are you talking about? When was it ever legal to have sex with someone who was incapacitated? An incapacitated individual is not capable of either consenting or resisting. It's not that the individual loses "the right to consent", an incapacitated individual has lost the cognitive/neurological ability to formulate and indicate knowing consent.

You are really such an ignorant schmuck, trying to sell sham defenses for rape, it's pathetic.


maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 12:52 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
You're overlooking the fact that the three men involved in the incident knew they were assaulting an incapacitated individual--they knew she wasn't consenting, and they counted on her not recalling or reporting what took place. That can be heard in the recorded audio of their conversation on the video table.


Can you please tell me how you know this "fact"?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 01:13 pm
@maxdancona,
What Firefly says is how the prosecutor has interpreted the video, we however dont know how a jury of peers would conclude so I dont think that we can claim that a rape took place. We also know that we ths citizens will never get a chance to evaluate the evidence. We have seen so much prosecutorial misconduct that I am not willing to take anything they say as fact.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 01:18 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
We have a brief CNN report based on a video and a vague set of statements from the police.


You don't pay very careful attention to the facts, do you?

CNN is hardly the only news outlet reporting this incident of gang rape--it's been covered nationally. And the statements and responses by the police aren't vague at all--the police in one state rather accidently came across a cell phone video that appeared to show an incapacitated female being gang raped on a beach. and, as a result of excellent detective work, the location of this crime, in another state, and the identity of the victim, were tracked down, and two of the three attackers shown in the video have been identified and arrested so far. And the Sheriff in the county in which this rape occurred was not vague in his description of what he considered a repulsive sexual crime, and which he compared to wild animals attacking a carcass.
Quote:
This discussion (without so few real facts) is rather silly.

I doubt that the two young men who have been arrested and charged with specific criminal sexual acts, and suspended from attending their college, find it very silly.
Quote:
The phrase "rush to judgment" seems to be appropriate.

When there is evidence, such as video and audio evidence, of a violent crime taking place, and who was involved in it, it would be derelict on the part of law enforcement if they did not begin the process of making arrests of suspects and placing the matter in the courts, while continued investigation was ongoing. That's not a "rush to judgment" that's how criminal procedures are initiated, and it helps to initially determine whether the general public is at risk from such suspects if they are granted bail.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 01:58 pm
@firefly,
Still, innocent until proven guilty...

I guess the reason the rape was not reported, including by girls who may have seen it, is that drunk sex is considered A-okay among these students.

I remember when I was a teenager, a male friend once tried to kiss a female friend who was totally drunk, at one outdoor party. The oldest guy among us (17 or so) quietly leaned on him and said (in essence): "Leave her alone. Don't take advantage of her. Or can you only kiss a girl who's nearly passed out?" The other guy agreed and let her alone. The peer message was very clear: only losers do that. Now, if a girl was drunk AND she wanted to kiss you (alcohol relieves inhibitions), then it was okay.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 02:36 pm
@firefly,
Firefly, you are confusing law enforcement doing its job (which I whole-heartedly support) with the media and public rushing to judgement (which I don't).

People on this thread are not law-enforcement and have know very little very little about this case... yet we are getting an awful lot of speculation here that is being presented as fact.

A criminal prosecution involves getting all the facts. Talking to the victim. Talking to the accused. Talking to witnesses. Questioning every claim be made on all sides. Allowing the accused to defend himself.

We have none of that happening here... and yet you seem to have reached a verdict.

hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 03:49 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Talking to the ALLEGED victim. Talking to the accused.


fixed
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 03:52 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
When there is evidence, such as video and audio evidence

the state claiming to have evidence does not equal a fact that thereis evidence. Show me. If I see the tape and I agree with the prosecutor then I will say that there is evidence of a crime. Or if a jury of 12 says there is. Checks and balances is how our system was designed to work, and it is how it must work. One person who works for the state does not get to decide things, unless they are a judge, and even they have people watching them.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 04:18 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
A criminal prosecution involves getting all the facts. Talking to the victim. Talking to the accused. Talking to witnesses. Questioning every claim be made on all sides. Allowing the accused to defend himself.
We have none of that happening here...

Quite the contrary, we have all of that going on in this case.

Perhaps you should refrain from commenting on this case until you actually learn more about it.

Video evidence is very compelling, and often definitive, in determining whether a crime has occurred, and who was involved, and whether evidence of criminal guilt is apparent. In this case, the police departments in two different states felt confident that the cell phone video they viewed captured a crime of sexual assault, and images of the victim and her assailants. The arrests were based, not on a report by the victim, who did not recall the events of the sexual assault, but rather on the evidence of criminal behavior revealed on the tape that the police viewed.

In the court of public opinion, I see no reason to believe that there was not sufficient reason to arrest and charge these two men--and a judge also felt the charges against them were justified by the evidence presented in court. Obviously, the final legal verdict is pending a more complete investigation and prosecution, and won't be determined until some time in the future, but, in the meantime, it seems quite reasonable, in the court of public opinion, to speculate on the likely guilt of suspects who are seen committing a crime which was captured on videotape.

It was the videotape evidence which also helped to convict two of those involved in the Vanderbilt University gang rape case, another case where the incapacitated female victim did not even recall the events. Those two will be sentenced in 9 days and they both face possible decades in prison. These are serious crimes, with serious consequences.



hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 04:25 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
In the court of public opinion, I see no reason to believe that there was not sufficient reason to arrest and charge these two men--and a judge also felt the charges against them were justified by the evidence presented in court. Obviously, the final legal verdict is pending a more complete investigation and prosecution, and won't be determined until some time in the future, but, in the meantime, it seems quite reasonable, in the court of public opinion, to speculate on the likely guilt of suspects who are seen committing a crime which was captured on videotape.

No, what would be reasonable would be if the state waited to get a conviction or a plea deal before they made any public statement. How often do we see the state make a big splash in the media about arresting someone, about how they are protecting us from the evil doers amongst us, and then we hear nothing because they never had the goods? A lot is the answer. THis is abuse of the citizens at the hands of the state, and pretty much the only purpose of this abuse is to drive PR trying to pump up the state in the court of public opinion. Sorry Charley, that is a piss poor reason to abuse citizens.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 04:33 pm
A 3rd arrest has been made in this case...

Quote:
Third suspect arrested in alleged Panama City gang rape
By Eliott C. McLaughlin and John Murgatroyd, CNN
Updated 4:11 PM ET, Wed April 15, 2015

Panama City Beach, Florida (CNN)—A third person has been arrested in the case of an alleged spring break gang rape that was videotaped on a crowded stretch of Panama City Beach, the Bay County, Florida, Sheriff's Office said Wednesday.

Police arrested the suspect at 11 p.m. Tuesday.

"After developing information that George Davon Kennedy was the third suspect seen in the video of the gang rape, BCSO Investigators obtained a warrant for his arrest," according to a news release.

Investigators discovered that Kennedy had family in DeKalb County, Georgia, and reached out to the sheriff's office there. Deputies in DeKalb, in the Atlanta area, tracked down Kennedy and arrested him on a charge of sexual assault by multiple perpetrators, the Bay County Sheriff's Office said.

Kennedy is from Murfreesboro, Tennessee, and has been a student at Middle Tennessee State University, the sheriff's office said.

Previously, Ryan Calhoun and Delonte Martistee were arrested and charged with sexual battery by multiple perpetrators, the sheriff's office said. Calhoun was released Saturday after posting $50,000 bond; Martistee remains in Bay County Jail, a county deputy said

Troy University in Alabama said the two are students and have been "placed on temporary suspension from school per the university's standards of conduct and disciplinary procedures. Martistee, a member of the track and field team, has also been removed from the team."

Martistee is represented by a public defender. Calhoun's legal representation is unclear. No public statement has been made on either's behalf.

A newscast and a nightmare

The arrests come after a woman told police she may have been drugged and gang-raped on a beach behind a popular club in broad daylight as bystanders watched.


The woman didn't recall the assault, police say, but she saw the video of her alleged assault on the news, and though the footage had to be blurred, she recognized her tattoos and contacted authorities.

It's not the first time this has happened to a young woman in Panama City Beach, authorities say.

Four young men were involved in the assault, Bay County Sheriff Frank McKeithen said, and while he previously said federal marshals were trying to track down a third suspect and investigators were seeking a possible witness, it's unclear if the person arrested Tuesday was someone the police had been looking for.

"There's hundreds, hundreds of people standing there -- watching, looking, seeing, hearing what's going on," McKeithen said. "And yet our culture and our society and our young people have got to the point where obviously this is acceptable somewhere. I will tell you it is not acceptable in Bay County."

Authorities have said they plan to interview the woman and show her the full video to see whether she knows the attackers and can help identify other suspects, said Ruth Corley, spokeswoman for the sheriff's office.

The woman plans to press charges, Corley said. Investigators were to meet with her this week.

'Strong possibility she was drugged'

After interviewing witnesses, Bay County investigators determined the alleged rape took place between March 10 and March 12, behind Spinnaker Beach Club, a popular bar and dance club for spring breakers.

She "does not remember the assault at all," Corley said. "She remembers taking a drink from a CamelBak and there is a strong possibility she was drugged." (CamelBak sells various products for transporting water or other drinks.)

She was visiting Panama City Beach at the time of the assault, and is now home, authorities said.

The Troy, Alabama, Police Department found the video during the course of an investigation into an unrelated shooting and turned it over to the Bay County Sheriff's Office.


The video shows suspects pushing the victim's hand aside and holding her legs down, Corley said. "You can see in the video there are people two feet away. They were assaulting her, and we believe the people around her knew she was being assaulted."

The suspects can be heard commenting about what they are doing to her, Corley said.

Authorities have three sworn statements from witnesses stating that the assault happened, Corley said.

The sheriff's office released part of the video to local TV stations, which blurred portions of it before airing. CNN is showing part of what was released.

'This is not the first video we've recovered'

While the video is "one of the most disgusting, repulsive, sickening things that I've seen this year on Panama City Beach," it's not an isolated incident, McKeithen said.

"This is not the first video we've recovered. It's not the second video. It's not the third video. There's a number of videos we've recovered with things similar to this, and I can only imagine how many things we haven't recovered."

Corley said that through social media, "we have been able to find video of girls, incoherent and passed out, and almost like they are drugged, being assaulted on the beaches of Panama City in front of a bunch of people standing around."

About 100,000 spring break revelers come to the beach community every year. This year, the Bay County Sheriff's Office made more than 1,000 arrests for various crimes -- about triple the number of arrests made in the same period last year.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/15/us/florida-gang-rape-panama-city-arrest/
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 04:34 pm
@firefly,
Quote:

Quite the contrary, we have all of that going on in this case.

Perhaps you should refrain from commenting on this case until you actually learn more about it.


Come on Firefly! You aren't making any sense.

You are jumping to conclusions on this case and rushing to judgement based on a couple of news reports containing a couple of quotes from the prosecutor. I am neither jumping to conclusions or rushing to judgement.

I am happy to admit that I don't have a clue about what really happened ... any more than you do.

hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 04:42 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
"This is not the first video we've recovered. It's not the second video. It's not the third video. There's a number of videos we've recovered with things similar to this, and I can only imagine how many things we haven't recovered."
That, plus the fact that no one is said to have objected at the time, leads me to believe that the state is now criminalizing common behavior, behavior that was in the past not criminalized. We are seeing this a lot, increasingly it is getting impossible to get through a day without being in violation of the rapidly expanding law book, and it is not because we are any more evil than humans have been in the past, it is because our minders are increasingly keeping us on a short leash. The government is removing our freedoms wholesale, claiming that it must to protect the alleged victims.

Bull. ****.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 05:07 pm
@hawkeye10,
It seems to me that Hawkeye and Firefly are making the same mistake (just from different sides). At this point we don't have enough information...
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Apr, 2015 05:10 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
I am happy to admit that I don't have a clue about what really happened ... any more than you do.

Well, if you are that uninformed/ignorant/clueless there is no point discussing this case with you, and you can't argue that the three college students already arrested and charged are innocent either, they just haven't been adjudicated legally guilty yet.

I do feel I "have a clue" about whether a sexual assault took place on that beach and who was involved--the videotape provides more than "a clue". And I feel this case has involved excellent multi-state police work that has led to these 3 arrests. It's great to see the police doing such a good job and treating sexual assaults with the seriousness and investigative diligence these violent crimes merit.







 

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