At what point does pride become a bad thing?

it just means that although i like you personally, and those poor guy's in the greater boston area don't know what they are missin', it won't stop me from ribbing you when i can. speakin' of ribs i gotta go eat...

Deb,

I think the definitions for pride are irrelevant and I think they are all the same thing. People just look at them differently. Being proud of your son to me is just the same as being proud to have beaten another man to pulp, being proud of how beautiful you are etc. I think it's silly to try to characterize pride as inordinate since any pride can be called inordinate. It's all from the same root and some manifestations are just uglier than others. Some are considered beautiful (by some).

I think my pride helps me in that it motivates me to excel. It hurts me because some people don't like to lose and a guy who always wants to win is almost always an arse.

Oddly enough I am very proud but don't like compliments. It's awkward.

so the beatles had it right then Craven in 65?

great song if you read betwixed the lines,

What song? Can you post the lyrics? I respect but dislike most of their work.

give me a second

I'm a loser
I'm a loser
And I'm not what I appear to be

Of all the love I have won or have lost
there is one love I should never have crossed
She was a girl in a million, my friend
I should have known she would win in the end

I'm a loser
And I lost someone who's near to me
I'm a loser
And I'm not what I appear to be

Although I laugh and I act like a clown
Beneath this mask I am wearing a frown
My tears are falling like rain from the sky
Is it for her or myself that I cry

I'm a loser
And I lost someone who's near to me
I'm a loser
And I'm not what I appear to be

What have I done to deserve such a fate
I realize I have left it too late
And so it's true, pride comes before a fall
I'm telling you so that you won't lose all

I'm a loser
And I lost someone who's near to me
I'm a loser
And I'm not what I appear to be

dylan played on this version. i live by it, or try to but seem to never get it right, in life in general. the ability to find a balance between too much pride and compromise.

I think that you all will find this article by Nathaniel Branden very interesting in the light of this discussion:


Link to "What Self Esteem Is and Is Not"

Very interesting, all about compromise, or did I not get it Phoenix?

I personally think, everyone has an ego. It is just that some people ignite the pride part with less inertia. While others fly right into the bling bling, wheres my name, and want nothing but fame.
What other people think about you is none of your buisness.
You want to know about good parts of pride (sucess), or positive ego.
Look up Emerson's Success Quote


By the way much thanx for the link, though did not tempt. I already agree and understand as much as possible.

HOPE YOU HAD GREAT HOLIDAYS (TO PHEONIX) plus rewind a'lil

I think we all should be on the passive approach here, Pride has many diff definitions, and human delusions.
We have people were pride is the end result of greed or crime
We also have those that remember back as being kids. The game were you would go back to back and see who could with both armswrapped together give them the ability to stand. it was an end result in equality/comprimise.
Buddhisits disregard bugs while they rake out of respect and comprimise.
I have friends that do Non-Profit Org.. and all they ask for is one smile or to know that no matter what **** gets shoveled th're way. They keep feet firm. I could give a 4521 what anyone thinks about me or if they wrong me as long as I attempted to better a situation

Mikey52- Take another look at the article. If you read through the lines, it is about NOT compromising, not subverting your core values to the whim of the moment.

I think the word "pride" is problematic in this discussion. First, only little k and her friend can sort out the subtext of the comment he made about the horoscope. I'm not going to be able to help there.

The aspect I'd like to focus on has more to do with persona (for lack of a better word.) "Beneath this mask I am wearing a frown." <eh, Mikey?>

Everyone has an image of themselves that they want to project. That image may morph slightly in different situations, but basically we see ourselves as the person we want to be. I like to be seen as competent, maybe even a little bit wise. I don't handle situations where I might be seen as a fool. That's pride.

Carried to an extreme, a person may do very bad things prove that other people agree with his own image of himself.

Swimpy- I perceive myself as an intelligent, often wise person, who has the facility, on occasion, to make a perfect ass of myself. IMO if people can accept themselves, as they are, warts and all, there is no need to "jump through hoops" attempting to convince other people that we are perfect.

When we create an illusion of ourselves, we are denying reality.

I lean towards phoenix's angle there. I want to portray myself as honestly as I can. I can only accept the good and try to work on the bad parts of my personality.

Of course you are right, Phoenix. I'm just trying to illustrate a point about pride. The Japanese call it saving face. It's a perfectlly human trait. It's only when our fear of losing face gets in the way of reaching goals or maintaining good relationships that it becomes a bad thing.

You're opening a whole nother can o'worms there, littlek. How do you define bad parts of your personality? Parts of your personality that you don't like for some reason? Parts of your personality that cause you not to be successful in your interactions with the world? Parts of your personality that other people comment on / don't comment on ? ... ? errrrr, i'm not actually asking the question. I'm still back on pride, and the differences between pride and self-esteem. I found the link Phoenix provided earlier a bit problematic, and have gone off to do some more reading.

As much as I respect the Japanese and their culture, I cannot relate to their whole idea of "saving face". It is so outer directed. I think I mentioned in another thread what I had once learned in a sociology class about the differences between a "guilt culture", and a "shame culture".

Most western cultures are "guilt cultures", where wrongdoing is internalized.

The Japanese culture is definitely a "shame culture", where society's evaluation of you takes precedence over your perception of yourself.

I need to confer with c.i. about this. He could explain it a lot better than me!

I don't mean to pick on you or try to psychoanalize you, little k. You see yourself as honest and down to earth. Nothing wrong with that. From what I've seen of you, I agree.

I'm using myself as an example. I think I'm pretty normal We Americans talk about self image-how we see ourselves. IMO, how closely we hold that image determines how we face the world.

No worries Swimpy