The 'SOUL'. What is it?

@mark noble,

One can imagine a physical account of a "soul"...personality is one of the most common denominators for the old coinage of what a soul is ! Wink

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@Olivier5,

Ghost in the machine.
I like that.
But, other than by identity (which is an individualistic property in all material) What is the 'physical' soul?
Ghost in the machine, is an album from the 80's I have on cassette (audiotape) - can't remember by who???
Could google it, but won't....
Specials...?
OMD? No, too electric.
Argghhhh...
Tip of bloody tongue - Japan.............. Yes - Sticking with 'Japan'. Am sure - JAPAN. was innovative album 30 yrs ago:)

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@Frank Apisa,

I did answer your question.

What part of my answer do you not get?

1 Reply

@mark noble,

mark noble wrote:

Ghost in the machine.
I like that.
But, other than by identity (which is an individualistic property in all material) What is the 'physical' soul?
Ghost in the machine, is an album from the 80's I have on cassette (audiotape) - can't remember by who???
Could google it, but won't....
Specials...?
OMD? No, too electric.
Argghhhh...
Tip of bloody tongue - Japan.............. Yes - Sticking with 'Japan'. Am sure - JAPAN. was innovative album 30 yrs ago:)

Olivier5's "Ghost in the machine" is an apt metaphor.

I think "soul" is a more metaphysical term for that concept that we call "life." "Life" is a more materialist term for that concept. The question can be asked what, exactly, is "life"?

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

I did answer your question.

What part of my answer do you not get?

You did not answer my questions, Blue.

Stop playing games.

Here are the questions again, ('ll word them slightly differently to make it easier for you):

Do you agree that if someone says, "I believe there are no gods"...it is a blind guess?

Do you agree that if someone says, "I believe there is a GOD"...it is a blind guess?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

If we're to use your criteria of experience upon which to base those statements, then no they are not blind guesses.

2 Replies

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

If we're to use your criteria of experience upon which to base those statements, then no they are not blind guesses.

What criteria are you speaking of? I have offered no criteria. That is your imagination at work.

That is what I am trying to eliminate...by taking this give and take small pieces at a time.

So...answer the questions...and do so using whatever "criteria" you want to bring to the table...not some criteria you invented that I supposedly brought here.

If you in fact think there are criteria or qualifiers that make the answers to those questions "NO"...then state the criteria clearly...and state it as your own.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

Is there such a thing as 'educated' guesses? Even blind guesses fall into that category?

ooops, I cut my finger, and that really smarted. But then, that's only a guess on my part. Reality sure is confusing!

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Is there such a thing as 'educated' guesses? Even blind guesses fall into that category?

ooops, I cut my finger, and that really smarted. But then, that's only a guess on my part. Reality sure is confusing!

I think there are such things as "educated guesses", ci.

I just finished playing a poker tournament. I can tell you that I made lots of educated guesses during that tourney.

Blind guesses are NOT educated guesses.

If the terminology does not sit well with you (or with you, Blue) I can certainly change it to "guesses that have just about nothing meaningful as back-up."

A guess that there are no gods in REALITY is a blind guess. There is absolutely no way to know that there are no gods...and any "evidence" that is presented is so ambiguous as to constitute nothingness.

Same goes, in a tiny bit lesser sense, for the guess that there is a GOD. Any "evidence" that is presented is totally ambiguous...and useless for any kind of meaningful guess in that direction.

Of course with the latter...there is always the possibility that IF there actually is a GOD...and IF that GOD is a personal GOD willing to disclose itself...the GOD certainly could do so.

I, and I suspect you, would take any assertion that has happened with a barrel of salt. We both have seen many people come into this forum and claim some kind of divine revelation (some call themselves GOD selected prophets.) But I suggest that kind of thing can be discounted...unless the person making the claim can show that there is no chance that the so-called revelation is delusional.

So yeah, in my opinion, there ARE blind guesses...and educated guesses (or estimates, calculations).

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

If we're to use your criteria of experience upon which to base those statements, then no they are not blind guesses.

What criteria are you speaking of? I have offered no criteria. That is your imagination at work.

That is what I am trying to eliminate...by taking this give and take small pieces at a time.

So...answer the questions...and do so using whatever "criteria" you want to bring to the table...not some criteria you invented that I supposedly brought here.

If you in fact think there are criteria or qualifiers that make the answers to those questions "NO"...then state the criteria clearly...and state it as your own.

You’re having trouble keeping up with your own assertions.

You stated your criteria here, among other places, when you said it’s based on expereince.

Quote:

Actually, I said it is based on experience. And it is. If you are raised a Catholic...the experience will tend to dispose you to guessing that there is a GOD.

But if you say, "I believe there is a GOD"...THAT IS A BLIND GUESS...despite the fact that experience has come into play.

If you think "I believe there is a GOD" is not a blind guess...

...explain why you think it is not.

You stated your qualifier here when you said:

Quote:

"In a discussion about REALITY"...is a qualifier that pretty much discounts the notion of "I believe the GIANTS are going to be in the Super Bowl this year" as a blind guess.

It also discounts the notion of entering an intersection under certain conditions as being a blind guess.

But when someone says "There is a GOD" or "There are no gods" or "This is not an illusion" or "“there is no second chance, no opportunity to have a do-over, there is no afterlife where wrongs are righted and cosmic justice meted out to the evildoers"...

...that person IS making a blind guess.[/url]

So, I’ve based my response to what you have been asserting, criteria, qualifiers and all.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Apparently, there are various realities.

Another thing that's apparent is that it's one hum dinger of a pickle trying to get to the bottom of their differences.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

I like your description,

Quote:

hum dinger of a pickle

, but my contention is it's not so much a difficulty about differences as it is an impossibility. As the saying goes, one man's garbage is another man's treasure. I'm not sure that'll ever change.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

If we're to use your criteria of experience upon which to base those statements, then no they are not blind guesses.

What criteria are you speaking of? I have offered no criteria. That is your imagination at work.

That is what I am trying to eliminate...by taking this give and take small pieces at a time.

So...answer the questions...and do so using whatever "criteria" you want to bring to the table...not some criteria you invented that I supposedly brought here.

If you in fact think there are criteria or qualifiers that make the answers to those questions "NO"...then state the criteria clearly...and state it as your own.

You’re having trouble keeping up with your own assertions.

You stated your criteria here, among other places, when you said it’s based on expereince.

Quote:
Actually, I said it is based on experience. And it is. If you are raised a Catholic...the experience will tend to dispose you to guessing that there is a GOD.

But if you say, "I believe there is a GOD"...THAT IS A BLIND GUESS...despite the fact that experience has come into play.

If you think "I believe there is a GOD" is not a blind guess...

...explain why you think it is not.

You stated your qualifier here when you said:

Quote:
"In a discussion about REALITY"...is a qualifier that pretty much discounts the notion of "I believe the GIANTS are going to be in the Super Bowl this year" as a blind guess.

It also discounts the notion of entering an intersection under certain conditions as being a blind guess.

But when someone says "There is a GOD" or "There are no gods" or "This is not an illusion" or "“there is no second chance, no opportunity to have a do-over, there is no afterlife where wrongs are righted and cosmic justice meted out to the evildoers"...

...that person IS making a blind guess.[/url]

So, I’ve based my response to what you have been asserting, criteria, qualifiers and all.

When you finish fooling around and playing games...answer my questions if you want to continue the discussion.

I stand by every word I have said.

Now...I want to find out the area of disagreement.

In my opinion...anyone saying "I believe there are no gods" or "I believe there is a GOD"...

...is merely making a blind guess.

If you disagree...lets discuss why you disagree.

Or continue to play with yourself. Either way is fine with me.

1 Reply

@mark noble,

Quote:

But, other than by identity (which is an individualistic property in all material) What is the 'physical' soul?

Why do you assume it must be physical?

Edit: I take that back. If the self is "real" it must have some physical extent. I would think it's some refined form of information, but information is also physical.

Quote:

Ghost in the machine, is an album from the 80's I have on cassette (audiotape) - can't remember by who???

Pink Floyd?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

When you finish fooling around and playing games...answer my questions if you want to continue the discussion.

I stand by every word I have said.

How am I fooling around if I've been quoting you directly, and basing my responses directly on what you've been asserting?

Frank Apisa wrote:

Now...I want to find out the area of disagreement.

In my opinion...anyone saying "I believe there are no gods" or "I believe there is a GOD"...

...is merely making a blind guess.

If you disagree...lets discuss why you disagree.

Or continue to play with yourself. Either way is fine with me.

Once again, given your criteria of experience in regard to beliefs in "reality" (Re. your own post), the statements, "I believe there are no gods," and "I believe there is a god" aren't blind guesses because they are based on experience as well, the qualifier of "REALITY" notwithstanding.

2 Replies

@InfraBlue,

Well, Frank is saying that the majority in this world who believes in one god or another are "just guessing." Their reality doesn't exist; that's over 75% of the world population.

I wonder who's playing games here. LOL

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
When you finish fooling around and playing games...answer my questions if you want to continue the discussion.

I stand by every word I have said.

How am I fooling around if I've been quoting you directly, and basing my responses directly on what you've been asserting?

Frank Apisa wrote:
Now...I want to find out the area of disagreement.

In my opinion...anyone saying "I believe there are no gods" or "I believe there is a GOD"...

...is merely making a blind guess.

If you disagree...lets discuss why you disagree.

Or continue to play with yourself. Either way is fine with me.

Once again, given your criteria of experience in regard to beliefs in "reality" (Re. your own post), the statements, "I believe there are no gods," and "I believe there is a god" aren't blind guesses because they are based on experience as well, the qualifier of "REALITY" notwithstanding.

When you tire of fooling around...please answer the questions using your criteria...rather than what you are erroneously supposing my criteria to be.

Then we can discuss it.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Well, Frank is saying that the majority in this world who believes in one god or another are "just guessing." Their reality doesn't exist; that's over 75% of the world population.

I wonder who's playing games here. LOL

I am saying that anyone who says, "I believe GOD exists" or "I believe there are no gods"...are simply making blind guesses...and using the word "believe" to pretend their blind guesses are something more than blind guesses, ci.

I am not playing games...although, as usual, I am enjoying others who are.

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Quote:

A guess that there are no gods in REALITY is a blind guess. There is absolutely no way to know that there are no gods...and any "evidence" that is presented is so ambiguous as to constitute nothingness.

Uh?

Maybe in philosophy, but in science no one is obligated to prove a "negative". (no evidence is needed)

Example only (not to be discussed):

There are no black holes! No need to prove their inexistence.
There are black holes! Oh yeah? Prove it!

2 Replies

@carloslebaron,

Not quite. I can claim hate does not exist and I can go to prove this by showing everybody loves everybody. I can prove something not by proving its positive opposite. You can prove there are no black holes, unless there are black holes.

1 Reply

The 'SOUL'. What is it?

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