15
   

The 'SOUL'. What is it?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2014 10:35 am
@Olivier5,
I'm not sure I understand Frank's ad nauseam rhetoric about 'wild guesses about god and no god,' because, as I've said earlier,
Quote:
All of life is a wild guess; that's the reason everybody has their own subjective perception of how they lead their lives.


What is the point is he trying to make, if any? Our reality is how we chose to live our lives - based on guesses - and our genes and environment.

Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2014 11:30 am
@Frank Apisa,
The experience of bottomless evil; the experience of gods' absence from the world... I gave you 2, but you are blind.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:08 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Frank is not trying to make any point. He is just trying to annoy people. That gives him a kick.

Yes, we make many guesses, including some that are well-informed and others which are less so. But beliefs are not guesses. One does not commit to a guess, but one commits to a belief. And beliefs can be based on experience. The idea that they are "blind guesses" is very simplistic. In reality, people's experience feed into their faith or lack thereof. No definition is provided for "blind" or "guess" or "gods" either... Frank is cheap.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2014 12:12 pm
@Olivier5,
As you said earlier, our experience is what is real, not their definition or adjective given to them. It really doesn't make any difference what they're called. Many people believe in god; it doesn't matter if they're 'wild guesses' or not. THAT'S A FACT.

Most things in life can be challenged; it doesn't make it any more true or factual to the individual.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2014 01:21 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

The experience of bottomless evil; the experience of gods' absence from the world... I gave you 2, but you are blind.


Aw, c'mon...stop kidding around and really answer.

One...name someone who has experienced "bottomless evil"...and then explain how that person was able to deduce or infer that there are no gods...as opposed to there are gods who simply will not interfere with evil.

And explain how "the experience of gods' absence from the world" is anything but BEGGING THE QUESTION...and totally worthless in this enterprise.

Name an experience...or lack of experience...that makes "there are no gods" anything more than a blind guess, Olivier.

You can do better than that nonsense...which is little more than putting English words on paper.

0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2014 01:23 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Frank is not trying to make any point. He is just trying to annoy people. That gives him a kick.

Yes, we make many guesses, including some that are well-informed and others which are less so. But beliefs are not guesses. One does not commit to a guess, but one commits to a belief. And beliefs can be based on experience. The idea that they are "blind guesses" is very simplistic. In reality, people's experience feed into their faith or lack thereof. No definition is provided for "blind" or "guess" or "gods" either... Frank is cheap.


The comment "There are no gods" is nothing but a blind guess, Olivier. You understand that by now...but you simply cannot work up the ethical standards necessary to acknowledge it.

You are fast becoming a joke.



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTeU4vlJdHgVsK1ABeeBg0AtZiOrKvN16aUYdYa6DSZV9zpJBggxQ

Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2014 02:19 pm
@Frank Apisa,
The joke is on you...

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2014 02:31 pm
@Olivier5,
For those who fail to understand that most of what we believe and act upon are based on guesses. We do that every day in our living. Those choices are based on our genes and environment; our perceptions and beliefs. All choices are true regardless of how anyone else wishes to label them. That becomes part and parcel of our lives; it's called 'experience.'

It has nothing to do with intelligence; it's based on the individual's perceptions through the experiences they've had in their life - and what they accept to be their beliefs.

All humans have different beliefs in religions and politics based on their genes and environment. They are essentially all 'blind guesses.' That's because the individual's perceptions vary by their own subjective judgment of what they believe. To say they are "blind guesses" adds nothing. Humans live on blind guesses. That's because nobody has the right answer to everything.
0 Replies
 
timur
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2014 02:38 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
That's because nobody has the right answer to everything.

Frank and Olivier excepted, obviously.

They know what people are and what people think..
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2014 02:40 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

The joke is on you...




You are not on me, Olivier. You are wherever you are...but not on me.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2014 03:52 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Oh yes, that mystic experiences exist, don't they?
A mystery is incomplete information.





David
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2014 03:59 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Even the Mystery House? LOL How about 'murder mystery?'

Are all mysteries the lack of information? To whom does this mystery belong?


0 Replies
 
carloslebaron
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2014 08:15 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
No; the reality for humans is that once anything is believed to be true, it's no longer a "wild guess." You may be able to say that as an observer, but to the individual, their belief is their fact and reality. How do you deny people their reality? You or anyone else as an outsider can't decide for the individual what they wish to believe or not.

How does anyone go about questioning all humans about their perspective of life based on guesses? What does it matter to you whether John and Jane believes in god, and Joe and Mary doesn't believe in god? That's their choice, isn't it?


I disagree.

A man who believes he is a woman, he passes thru surgery to acquire women's physical appearance, he talks like a woman, he walks like a woman, he changes his name for a woman's name, he claims here and there that he felt he was a woman since he can remember in his childhood... etc... etc... etc...

Excuse me, but "his reality" is not "reality", because regardless of what he thinks about himself, and regardless of all surgery and make up, he still is a man, a man who believes he is a woman, but he is not a woman.

Then, it is not blind guess either, because never becomes a reality, the dude still is a man not so a woman.

Quote:
Are all your decisions based on total knowledge of everything? Have you made guesses and acted upon them - even when they turned out to be wrong? Who has the right to criticize you for the choices you have made based on guesses?

Is their life in your hands? Why is it that what you consider a wild guess isn't that important to the person making the decision for their own life? Are you that much smarter than the people who believe in god?

Everybody makes wrong guesses and acts upon them. I know, I have. What difference does it make that my choice is a wild guess? Why should that concern you or anyone else?

All of life is a wild guess; that's the reason everybody has their own subjective perception of how they lead their lives.


Now here, is when your argument reaches the mature age. There is a difference between belief and reality.

Yes, I can state that the dude believes he is a woman, that is a reality, that he believes so.

But do not confuse my statement as saying that he is a woman, or that being a woman is his reality.

By no means, because if you think about it, any patient of a mental institution who believes that he is Alexander the Great, according to your proposal, we must have to accept such as a reality.

There are established limits, like us who can't survive without protection in outer space. The same as well, reality limits its dominion to truth, fact, etc.

Reality is to have a dream, and the dream itself is reality as a dream, but if your dream is about you being elastic enough to reach the Moon with your hand from ground zero... come on... you won't convince anyone that such is a reality.









cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Oct, 2014 08:54 pm
@carloslebaron,
You seem to have missed my whole message. The individual is their gene and environment; that also include who that individual feels and believes they are concerning gender. That includes sex change if that's what they believe they are and want. That happens to be their reality.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Oct, 2014 01:43 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I'm on your mind, though... Smile
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Oct, 2014 01:47 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

I'm on your mind, though... Smile


Yup. I said I would be here for ya...and I will.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Oct, 2014 01:59 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Actually I need help with some issue right now. Feel like giving a hand?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Oct, 2014 02:09 pm
@Olivier5,
Sure....(he said with some trepidation.)
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Oct, 2014 02:32 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Thanks. Here is the question: Do mystical experiences exist?

Yes, no?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Oct, 2014 03:00 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Thanks. Here is the question: Do mystical experiences exist?

Yes, no?


So you are not allowing "I do not know, because I have never had one myself?"

Seems that should be a part of this multiple choice...or the question should be, "Is it possible that mystical experiences exist."
 

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