15
   

The 'SOUL'. What is it?

 
 
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2014 10:57 am
I have no comprehension of 'soul'.
I deal, only, in physical properties and cannot grasp this 'abstract' concept. Anatomy, nervous system, brain functions, emotions derived from established 'learned/experiences', temporal progression, semantic, episodic, progressive-memory are physical derivatives. I know not the non-physical.
So, other than abstract hypothesis - What is the 'soul'?
 
Lordyaswas
 
  4  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2014 10:59 am
@mark noble,
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2014 11:00 am
@Lordyaswas,
Nice:)
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2014 12:09 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:

I have no comprehension of 'soul'.
I deal, only, in physical properties and cannot grasp this 'abstract' concept. Anatomy, nervous system, brain functions, emotions derived from established 'learned/experiences', temporal progression, semantic, episodic, progressive-memory are physical derivatives. I know not the non-physical.
So, other than abstract hypothesis - What is the 'soul'?


Are you saying there are no things in existence...that exist despite the fact that YOU do know know them???

Why would you feel that way?

And can you not conceive of things that exists right now...that NO human being knows about?
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2014 12:12 pm
@Frank Apisa,
1. No
2. It's Not a feeling.
3. No
ps. Your 3rd query is axiomatically absurd, but funny:)
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2014 12:32 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:

1. No


So you are not saying that a "soul" cannot exist...just that you do not know of it.

Okay, but that seems a trivial revelation, because I imagine there are all sorts of things you do not know.



Quote:
2. It's Not a feeling.


What are you saying here? I hope you are not negating what you just said in your response #1. So...what are you saying here?


Quote:
3. No
ps. Your 3rd query is axiomatically absurd, but funny:)


What in the world do you see as "axiomatically absurd" about the question?

dalehileman
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2014 01:44 pm
@mark noble,
Your soul Mark is everything about you except your body. Thus it persists after your death in the form of your accomplishments and the memories of others. Whether it existed before you were born or will after the Big Crunch is debatable

You might consider it "abstract hypothesis" but nothing is entirely anything while everything is partly something else. Your accomplishments for instance are mostly very concrete
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2014 02:47 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:

I have no comprehension of 'soul'.
I deal, only, in physical properties and cannot grasp this 'abstract' concept. Anatomy, nervous system, brain functions, emotions derived from established 'learned/experiences', temporal progression, semantic, episodic, progressive-memory are physical derivatives. I know not the non-physical.
So, other than abstract hypothesis - What is the 'soul'?

I think it can be thought of somewhat along the lines of "life."
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2014 04:26 am
@Frank Apisa,
I'm not saying that things don't exist simply because I haven't encountered them. I'm saying that everything in and of itself in a biological lifeform has a physical origin.
There is no requirement for an added abstract factor, simply because it suits one's imagination.

'Feeling'
It is not sensory derived. Hunches are redundant.

How can I, a human being, concieve of something that human beings have never concieved?
Do you recognize the absurdity of this?

mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2014 04:34 am
@dalehileman,
There is nothing about me that isn't my physical body Dale.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2014 05:50 am
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:

I'm not saying that things don't exist simply because I haven't encountered them. I'm saying that everything in and of itself in a biological lifeform has a physical origin.
There is no requirement for an added abstract factor, simply because it suits one's imagination.


So are you saying that unless there is a "requirement for an added abstract factor simply because it suits one's imagination"...it cannot exist?

A soul can possibly exist...a GOD can possibly exist. It is not necessary that you "know" that they exist...or that they be necessary. Neither of those things are requirements for them to exist.


Quote:
'Feeling'
It is not sensory derived. Hunches are redundant.


And apples grow on apple trees. But what is the point?

Quote:
How can I, a human being, concieve of something that human beings have never concieved?
Do you recognize the absurdity of this?



That was not what I said...and if you do not have the intellectual and ethical integrity to stick with what actually was said, perhaps this kind of debate is not for you.

What I said was:
Quote:
"can you not conceive of things that exists right now...that NO human being knows about?"


Your response to that comment was:
Quote:
"... axiomatically absurd, but funny."


I asked why you said that...and now you are "explaining":
Quote:
"How can I, a human being, concieve of something that human beings have never concieved?
Do you recognize the absurdity of this?"


Forgetting about the fact that you do not know how to spell "conceive"...why are you substituting the word "conceive" for "know" in the last part of that sentence? Could it be that you realize you were incorrect when you called my comment "axiomatically absurd"...so you made a change that would make it so...rather than manning up and simply acknowledging a mistake?

So I ask again: What is axiomatically absurd about, "can you not conceive of things that exists right now...that NO human being knows about?"
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2014 05:51 am
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:

There is nothing about me that isn't my physical body Dale.


You know that for a fact...or you are simply blindly guessing that to be a truth...and presenting it as established truth.

I certainly do not know that about myself...either way.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2014 08:26 am
I'm no believer, so not the right fish to take your bait, but what is in a poem, except ink and paper? (you can do a similar parallel with a score sheet for music, or a canvas etc. as long as it is artistic)

1) There is information, not just matter. Signs: letters, typography (and perhaps typos), words that are structured in verses. In fact the matter is there only to carry the signs (well... you can burn the darn poem too, and do all sorts of other things with it but let's keep it civilized)

2) The signs of course mean something, so there is meaning in there. Often in poetry the text is ambiguous so there are several overlapping meanings.

3) Finally, there seem to be a "spirit" of the poem, something that lingers once you stopped reading, or when you're remembering it. An ambiance - a character - a message - an image - a verse all bundled into one geshtalt impression. I have no doubt that it's an invention, a subjective "reading" which depends on the reader. But these impressions exist (think "Impressionism") and they can be expressed and shared to an extent.

In any case, we're pretty far from ink and paper, or even typography.
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2014 09:59 am
@mark noble,
Quote:
There is nothing about me that isn't my physical body Dale.
Semantic issue Mark
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2014 11:31 am
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:

Quote:
There is nothing about me that isn't my physical body Dale.
Semantic issue Mark


Actually, more than just semantics, Dale...as Olivier just pointed out.

Not sure where Mark was going with this, but I think it was over-reaching.


dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2014 01:07 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Actually, more than just semantics, Dale
Agreed, frank, wholly in line with the stipulation that nothing is…..

Note I didn't say "just…."
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Oct, 2014 06:14 am
@Frank Apisa,
Firstly - I cannot use the 'quote' facility via the medium I enter this site through - So please excuse me.
Secondly - I can only respond partly to posts - Because I am unable to read entire posts at my 'reply' screen - So I reply, in part, read more - edit - Rinse & repeat.
Thirdly - Clearly my predictive-text is a prick - If my eyesight were better - I would notice - If my ego existed - I would give a damn.

To your first query - How can something 'abstract' exist? Again - funny & absurd.
Show me a 'soul' or a 'god'?

Next query - Hunches don't have a point - They may or may not rely upon actuality - And if they do - They cease to be a hunch.
Whereas - feelings are physically derived (Sensory-derived) and actually exist.

Next query - Forgive my lack of interest here - But you are restating your absurdity.
How can I, a human being, (Or any other human being) conceive
of something that is unknown to human beings? Do you mean - ie - An 80ft octopus driving a ferrari on the moon? I can imagine such - But it doesn't make it real.

This is the one that makes me giggle.....
What 'things exist right now, that no human-beings (YOU, I, EVERY HUMAN included) know about'?
Lol... Seriously - Name just 1?
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Oct, 2014 06:15 am
@Frank Apisa,
Prove otherwise?
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Oct, 2014 06:19 am
@dalehileman,
No, It's a measurable scientific fact that I, and everything else that exists, am/is physically originated. Until 'other' is proven - I'll stick with facts.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Oct, 2014 06:31 am
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:

Firstly - I cannot use the 'quote' facility via the medium I enter this site through - So please excuse me.
Secondly - I can only respond partly to posts - Because I am unable to read entire posts at my 'reply' screen - So I reply, in part, read more - edit - Rinse & repeat.
Thirdly - Clearly my predictive-text is a prick - If my eyesight were better - I would notice - If my ego existed - I would give a damn.

To your first query - How can something 'abstract' exist? Again - funny & absurd.
Show me a 'soul' or a 'god'?


I cannot. I cannot show you a light wave...or an atom, for that matter. But that does not mean they do not exist. I cannot show you happiness...but that does not mean it does not exist.

I do not know if a GOD exists...or if a soul exists...but I cannot, as you seem to be doing, rule them out.

By the way, I was not the one who used “abstract.”

And if all that stuff at the beginning was suppose to mean, "I cannot post the way I am supposed to post...so you will have to make do with me inventing stuff and arguing against what I invent"...I respectfully decline.




Quote:
Next query - Hunches don't have a point - They may or may not rely upon actuality - And if they do - They cease to be a hunch.
Whereas - feelings are physically derived (Sensory-derived) and actually exist.


Are you just making this crap up for the sake of making stuff up???

I never said anything about hunches.

Oh...and show me a "feeling."

Quote:

Next query - Forgive my lack of interest here - But you are restating your absurdity.
How can I, a human being, (Or any other human being) conceive
of something that is unknown to human beings? Do you mean - ie - An 80ft octopus driving a ferrari on the moon? I can imagine such - But it doesn't make it real.


I didn't say it made it real. I never said any of that crap.

Learn to use the quote function...or buy something that will allow you to do so. Do not ask me about stuff that I have not brought up.

Quote what I said...and then comment on what I actually said. You do a lousy job of characterizing what has been said.


Quote:
This is the one that makes me giggle.....
What 'things exist right now, that no human-beings (YOU, I, EVERY HUMAN included) know about'?
Lol... Seriously - Name just 1?


Seriously...are there any living life forms anywhere else in this universe?

C'mon. Get serious...and then get back to me. This joking around stuff is silly.

 

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