Holocaust Evidence

Murder doesn't fall under the statute of limitations - but some of those killers are still alive.
Besides that, what happened during the Holocaust isn't a "black spot" which can be brushed under the carpet.

Someone who calls these crimes "a fuss" certainly lacks understanding. There may be a few reasons for such ...

Except you aren't standing with science carlos. You are simply denying science.

A gas chamber doesn't have to be hermetically sealed to work. It only needs to allow for a concentration of a dangerous material for a long enough period. Science has proven this again and again. When people die from CO poisoning they are not in hermetically sealed rooms. They are usually in homes or garages that have all kinds of air leaks. The key is the air exchange in the room is too slow to keep the CO concentration from building up. Then science has also shown that to reduce the CO concentration one need only stop producing the CO and open the windows to allow air flow. There is no need for special ventilation.

So to conclude, you aren't standing with science at all. You are simply making up excuses that you pretend are science.

Here it is from the Nazi who kept track of the numbers:

Dr. Wilhelm Hoettl, after being sworn, declares:

I was a member of the SD from 1938 until the German collapse
except for two interruptions during the years 1939 and
1941-1943. Until 1939 I had charge of the department
"Catholic Church" with the SD in Vienna, subsequently I was
employed in Department VI, Foreign Information Service.


In connection with my activities in Vienna, I made the
acquaintance of Obersturmbanfuehrer Eichmann, whom I met
again in 1943 as a section chief in Department IV of the
Gestapo. There he handled the Department for Jews [Judenreferat].


In August 1944 at the occasion of a visit in my apartment
in Budapest, Eichmann told me that he had to make a report
for Himmler on the number of Jews killed, and that he
estimated the sum-total of the Jews killed as 6 millions.
Of those 4 million had been killed in the extermination
institutions in the East, while the additional 2 millions
were killed by shootings -- mainly by the Einsatzgruppen of
the SIPO and the SD during the campaign in the East.


About 1942 I had a conversation with SS-Brigate commander
Dr. Stahlecker who had been in command of such an
Einsatzgruppe of the SIPO and the SD in the East. He told
me that he had been ordered by Obergruppenfuehrer Heydrich
to take command of such an Einsatzgruppe, whose field of
action was the area of an Army group. He had the order to
exterminate the Jews in that district by shootings.

>From my conversations with Eichmann and Stahlecker and


other members of the SIPO and SD I conclude that the Jews
were killed since the beginnings of the Russian campaign
(1941), at first by the Einsatzgruppen of the SIPO and the
SD and later -- probably since the beginning of 1943 --
in the extermination camps of the East.

The arrest of the Jews and their shipment to the
extermination camps was carried out by a special detachment
[Sonderkommando] under the direction of Eichmann, which
was composed of members of the SIPO -- especially
Gestapo. Heydrich had given the instructions for this to
Eichmann. In the RSHA his chief was the head of the
Gestapo, SS Obergruppenfuehrer Mueller.


[signed] Dr. Wilhelm Hoettl
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 5th day of
November 1943.
[signed] Whitney R. Harris
Lieut, U.S. Naval Reserve


[Nizkor note: The date of signing is incorrectly
transcribed. The original German document is dated
"5. November 1945." knm]


http://www.trachtman.org/MIDI/Mi

I've posted this before and it needed reposting. Thankyou.

@glitterbag



Surely.

This dude Leutcher says he has worked in design and construction of gas chambers.

But, in court (Canada) he revealed to have more experience in other trades.

Still, you don't need a "lot of experience and neither doctorate to pull pieces of a wall, and to take the samples to a lab. Whatever you do, the piece of wall won't be contaminated by the tool used to brake the wall and similar.

Reading the first paragraph of the Wikipedia article -Wikipedia is owned by a Jewish dude, for this reason the Lutcher report appears as "pseudoscience"- you notice that Leutcher's claims were dismiss not by the results of the lab but because he did lack of the required trade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leuchter_report

But, the lab results indeed supported his claims.

The deniers of the Leutcher report argued this and that in several publications, and, of course, Leutcher responded very satisfactorily to those arguments. You can follow the "fight" on the Leutcher report online, there are some web pages publishing both sides.

Here, the Leutcher report itself.

http://www.ihr.org/books/leuchter/leuchter.toc.html



You judge by yourself, I will respect your opinion, as well I expect for you to respect mine.

An uncle of mine was a WW2 veteran. He commanded the Army troops who liberated Dachau.

I have absolutely no respect for Holocaust deniers or for those who denigrate survivors of genocide. The lack of empathy that has been displayed in this thread is absolutely appalling. Reading the comments of anti-Semites or other assorted racists is not my idea of an intellectually stimulating exchange. I'd rather not get sick to my stomach. Trying to educate Holocaust deniers and other bigots is a waste of time. I have absolutely no respect for these people. Disgusting!

Fred Leutcher has been discredited by so many sources 60 Minutes, courts of law.....

http://archive.adl.org/issue_holocaust/leuchter-1993.html

Among Holocaust "revisionists," few have sparked more controversy than Fred A. Leuchter, Jr. At the time of his entry on the "revisionist" scene, Leuchter, 49, described himself as the Chief Engineer of Fred Leuchter Associates in Boston, Massachusetts, a firm specializing in gas chambers and executions, as well as "the design and fabrication of execution hardware used in prisons throughout the United States."
Leuchter became involved with the "revisionists" during the 1988 trial of Ernst Zundel, a German-Canadian neo-Nazi accused under a Canadian law of publishing hate propaganda. Zundel hired Leuchter to testify that the Auschwitz, Birkenau, and Majdanek concentration camps contained "no execution gas chambers" and "could not have been then, or now, be [sic] utilized or seriously, considered to function as executing gas chambers." The court dismissed this testimony, because Leuchter lacked the credentials to prove his expertise on gas chambers. Zundel was convicted of the charges; however, Leuchter's work took on a life of its own in "revisionist" circles as The Leuchter Report: The End of a Myth, published by Zundel's Samisdat Publishers, Ltd. of Toronto.

Nonetheless, the "research" Leuchter conducted to make these claims was from the start both biased and hopelessly flawed. Accompanied to Poland by his wife Carolyn, and three assistants, Leuchter described his procedure as follows:

"We began our work in the alleged gas chamber at the Auschwitz facility. Unfortunately, we were unable to accomplish much due to constant interruptions by both official and unofficial Sunday tours. It was too dangerous to take forensic samples and [video] tape, so we left for Birkenau about noon.

"At Birkenau. We took samples, documented our activities on video tape and in still photos, and made scale drawings of these facilities, carefully documenting the removal locations of all the forensic samples. We had to break into the sauna building, since it was locked.

"The following day, Monday, we again began our work at Auschwitz, the Sunday tours having subsided. Upon completion at Auschwitz, we drove again to Birkenau to take our control sample. Unfortunately, the building was locked and again we had to break and enter in order to access the delousing chamber.

"We arrived at Majdanek. and examined the facilities. It was extremely difficult to work here, in that a guard made rounds every ten or fifteen minutes. It was necessary for me to trespass beyond these gates in forbidden areas. Once we were caught short: I was forced to hurdle the gate, and was still in the air and in mid-jump when the guard entered. Fortunately, he was more interested in Jurgen and his camera to see me before I touched the ground."

Although an article in the July 1, 1991, issue of The Spotlight would claim "there have never been any questions about Leuchter's lack of expertise soon after the publication of his "Report " it was revealed that he had graduated from Boston University in 1964 with only a B.A. in history, and had never taken an engineering licensing test in Massachusetts. His supporters dismissed the importance of certification for his peculiar industry; however, an October 13, 1990, New York Times article quoted an expert anesthesiologist on Leuchter's lethal injection machine: "His injection system would render an inmate incapable of screaming about the 'extreme pain in the form of a severe burning sensation' caused by... potassium chloride."

Newsweek additionally reported, "Leuchter was running a death row shakedown scheme: if a state didn't purchase Leuchter's services, he would testify at the last minute for the condemned man that the state's death chamber might malfunction."

Before being brought to trial on criminal charges of practicing engineering without a license, Leuchter signed a consent agreement on June 12, 1991, admitting that he had misrepresented himself as an engineer, both in letters and proposals to correctional facilities, and in his "Report" on the concentration camp gas chambers. He therefore agreed to cease And desist from using the title "engineer" in connection with his execution equipment and the distribution of his writings.

Rather than retreat in light of these developments, Leuchter singled out Jews for blame over the setbacks his career has suffered. In an IHR flyer titled "Help Fred Leuchter Answer the Crazed Zionist Mob:' Leuchter was quoted as saying, "This witch hunt must and will stop. I give fair warning to all those who are part of this international cabal, to all those who have unjustly attacked me and violated my rights-to the Klarsfelds, Shapiros, and Kahns of the world, Fred Leuchter is coming for you! You will be brought to answer in those same courts and before the same judicial system you have sought to destroy."

Holocaust deniers have similarly clung to Leuchter's work. Indeed, when the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, an organization dedicated to bringing Nazi war criminals to justice, published Jean-Claude Pressac's Auschwitz.- Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers, an oversized 564-page book which details voluminous numbers of original Nazi documents, drawings, and other materials relating to the gas chambers, furnaces, buildings, and other death-camp facilities, IHR referred to the work as an "ersatz Leuchter Report."

This article was originally published by ADL in 1993 as part of Hilter's Apologists: The Anti-Semitic Propaganda of Holocaust "Revisionism"

I didn't know that, wm.

My father, an aaf colonel, had a document from the time, thus I have. I think I first saw it when I was ten. Part of growing up.

@parado


I guess you don't get it.

Use your example, the CO inside a room or a car. CO is lethal only in great amounts not giving room for clean air. With cyanide the scenario is different, it is lethal just when inhaled.

You can inhale CO and won't die immediately and you can recover fast, a different scenario happens with cyanide mixed with other components to make poison gas.

You are also ignoring that one door for the chamber and a ceiling duct going to the roof are not enough exits to clean up the room from poison gas at the rate Jewish sources claim of hundreds or thousands per day. A different scenario is when you open all the doors of a car or a house.

CO won't affect to a person standing outside besides a CO garage leaking door, but a person can get sick or die if standing outside besides a cyanide garage leaking door. In other words, gas leaking doors should be killing Nazis standing outside the assumed gas chambers.

Got it now?

You said it right.

Fred Leutcher has been discredited by so many sources. Stop it, Carlos. Just stop it.

Which proves that cyanide doesn't require a sealed chamber so that part of the your science is now completely opposite what you claimed earlier.



Wow. what nonsense from you. One needs to only know the size of the room to calculate the cfm of a fan.
If the room was 30' x 30' x 8' high, you could completely turn over the air such a room in 2 minutes with this 24" fan which does 4500 cubic feet per minute.

Although an article in the July 1, 1991, issue of The Spotlight would claim "there have never been any questions about Leuchter's lack of expertise soon after the publication of his "Report " it was revealed that he had graduated from Boston University in 1964 with only a B.A. in history, and had never taken an engineering licensing test in Massachusetts. His supporters dismissed the importance of certification for his peculiar industry; however, an October 13, 1990, New York Times article quoted an expert anesthesiologist on Leuchter's lethal injection machine: "His injection system would render an inmate incapable of screaming about the 'extreme pain in the form of a severe burning sensation' caused by... potassium chloride."

Newsweek additionally reported, "Leuchter was running a death row shakedown scheme: if a state didn't purchase Leuchter's services, he would testify at the last minute for the condemned man that the state's death chamber might malfunction."

Before being brought to trial on criminal charges of practicing engineering without a license, Leuchter signed a consent agreement on June 12, 1991, admitting that he had misrepresented himself as an engineer, both in letters and proposals to correctional facilities, and in his "Report" on the concentration camp gas chambers. He therefore agreed to cease And desist from using the title "engineer" in connection with his execution equipment and the distribution of his writings.

Also, children with physical deformities, people mentally impaired, homosexuals, and anyone else who ran afoul of the Master Race, wound up at the Nazi Spas set up to pamper all those in forced labor camps. dont forget the children who became experiments for sadistic doctors playing around to prove their super race theories. I could list thousands of examples, but it's pointless if you are trying to reach an audience that believes the attempted genocide of the Jewish people was over stated or didn't even happen.

I suppose Idi Amin and Pol Pot were unfairly singled out. Genocide is still being attempted, if you keep your followers ingloriously ignorant, you too can lead a group of hate filled morons to exterminate whatever the hell part of
humanity you want eliminated. For only a while, eventually, you will be stopped.

It require us to never let them spew unchallenged.

I don't doubt the atrocity took place - I do know that both sides were financed by the same bankers who have funded every conflict since the american civil war - And I do know that WITHOUT said funding, such atrocities would not have taken place (On such scale). And I do know that the profit made in defence contracts, medical supplies, military equipment, military catering, weapon/ammunition production, etc - Fronts the Stock-market.
War is the most savage frontier - But puts big bucks in the pockets of the fat cats who endure the bravery of being out-of-range.

@bobsal u553115



What I admire is the language used to put down anyone who has the right to give an opinion other than supported the assumed holocaust.

I wonder if "bringing war criminals to justice" at this point is nothing but "finding last Nazi witnesses who can contradict the holocaust campaign to isolate them and to impede people to hear their version".

On the other hand, as a skeptic I'm practical about terms used and physical reality.

If a source says "6 million Jews dead" in WW2, then I demand the counting of bodies.

So, the best way to count bodies is to find the references. And from the Nazi camps references,, numbers of death are by hundreds or low thousands. However, holocaust defenders say that these numbers are fake and that in "reality" are hundreds of thousands. But, how counted the bodies, the Nazis or the holocaust defenders decades later?

I stand with the Nazi counting of bodies. I see no reason why they have to lie about it, they were winning the war, and there is not a single reason to cover up anything. If they want to exterminate people, they didn't need of concentration camps, such is a waste of resources, they should just shoot anyone taken as Jewish. Simple.

So, by "counting bodies" in Nazi concentration camps, plus "counting bodies after the war was over, the amount is not more than a million Jewish people dead.

What about the rest?

The rest is what is catalogued as "missing" or "disappeared".

Missing or disappeared could mean lots of things.

It could mean that the dead body can't be counted because can't be found due to the explosion of the bomb and can't recognize any residual... it could also mean that the individual escaped, traveled to another country, changed his identity and started a new life.

So, if counting bodies reveals merely a million, then the rest is missing and can't be counted as dead bodies.

I'll hope you understand my position. It is in your position to count again and come with a solid and credible number, because as far as I know, millions of Jewish dudes escaped to other countries, assimilated themselves to other cultures and practically disappeared from the map.

I myself knew lots of them, who were "Catholic" in the 60's, and were "poor" and different race than the general neighborhood. It was notorious their presence, between a Smith and a Brown, their name Perez Coupe Coupe was called by the teachers.

Look, In my family, in my own family, Jewish dudes who escaped from Europe are now here in the US and have never counted as survivors of the war because their escape was never reported. Like them, millions escaped throughout the years hidden in ships, trains, crossing mountains, etc. They survived and changed their identity, because at one moment they thought that they will be found when Nazis won the war.

There are lots of testimonies of Jewish dudes who after thinking deep about their past, they remembered later how they escaped. For a while their memory was blank out as a normal response of their mind to forget those bitter experiences, but years later they remembered how neighbors showed family pictures generations back while they didn't have pictures to show.

Yes, they suffered a lot in other lands, but they weren't dead and can't be counted as such.

Going in specific to your message.

About Leutcher collecting samples, excuse me but, what do you expect?: having Leutcher installing orange cones on the floor of those rooms and a installing a sign saying "working area" and bringing his new tools from Home Depot and start taking samples of walls in front of everybody?

We agree. The profits made were obscene. Opel, GM's German subsidiary, was one of the few manufacturers that wasn't taken over and received royalties from the Germans through Swiss banks throughout the war.

The antiSemite American representative to Vichy refused to issue papers for Jews to escape the Germans. We all know the shame of the St Louis.

We also need to admit that western support of Zionism was more of an antiSemetic reaction to accepting Jewish refugees after WWII or sending them behind the Iron Curtain. We settled on allowing them to go to Palestine. Because Palestinians were held in lower esteem than Jews. So we are letting Palestinians deal with Western antiSemitism.

Have you read 'The Arms of Krupp' by William Manchester? It will give you a lot of insight on the incestuous group arms manufacturers are.

@ bobsal u553115



The funny thing about all your message, is that you have not presented your results on the walls of those assumed gas chambers.

Look, the scientific evidence presented by Leutcher (even when having him lying about his credentials) can be challenged solely with another scientific evidence.

Do you understand?

Rather than forcing Leutcher signing papers under blackmail treats, why not going officially to those rooms, and having supporters and deniers experts in the field, taking the wall samples and check the lab tests?

I told you that science rules in case like this. Court rulings are void to sentence Leutcher's report as invalid, only another scientific report made under both (supporters and deniers) supervision can be used to challenge or vindicate Leutcher's report.

The new scientific report can't be done by holocaust supporters alone, because as far as I can see. they seem to be fanatics instead of reasonable people.

What I ask is fair, more than fair. Scientific findings can solely be challenged with another scientific finding. Period.