5
   

America ... you wouldn't even want to make it up

 
 
Teufel
 
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 05:36 am
So what is it that you are teaching your children America? 2nd Amendment maybe? Bang the patriotic drum, sing the song and salute your dumb flag maybe.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/two-thirds-young-americans-dont-073600871.html

The major part of the holocaust actually started mid 1941, when the Einsatzgruppen got to work in Eastern Europe as they followed up after the front line troops of Operation Barbarossa and killed anyone they didn't like the look of ... that was the period of the pits. The Wannsee Conference of January 1942 saw the planned start of the 'Final solution of the Jewish question' ... Extremists do not use extreme language.

Is this all in the past? No. In the mid 90's on a smaller scale the same thing started again in Europe in the Balkan conflicts. Then Rwanda, 1 million dead in 3 months ... Then the DRC, c. 6.4 million dead in a few years (still on going). Trump and his ilk lead to this sort of insanity.

America .... sort yourselves and your ignorant brats out .... FFS.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 5 • Views: 381 • Replies: 25

 
maiden-usa
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 08:43 am
@Teufel,
Looks like propaganda. No link to the survey, no link to the questions asked, no scientific analysis provided. This stinks of lies.

It's not surprising though that Teufel would post this and probably believes it too. Blames Trump for his own hemorrhoids probably.
justaguy2
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 09:28 am
@maiden-usa,
Looking at the link the OP did in fact provide, it seems the point was that a surprising number of Americans between the ages of 18 and 39 didn't know, or didn't believe the Holocaust happened.

link in OP wrote:
...
The survey saw 1,000 people between the ages of 18 and 39 interviewed - 200 from each US state - over the phone and online.

It is thought to be the first nationwide study on Holocaust knowledge among millennials and 'Generation Z'.

New York, which has the highest Jewish population in the country, was the most likely to believe the Holocaust was a myth, along with the states of Indiana and California.
...


Therefore, I believe the point of this thread is about why the education system in America doesn't seem to be teaching this kind of history very well (or at all). Which is at least a little surprising given how close the USA and Israel are with each other as two friendly nation states that have strong ties with each other.

I don't see any mention of trump in either the OP, or the link provided in the OP.
maiden-usa
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 09:54 am
@justaguy2,
Yes, I know there was a link provided. A link to a survey that provides no information at all.

They probably used Democrat voter lists to find people to survey. How else could they find 1000 dumb-asses in America?

The point of this thread is to insult Americans by some pseudo-intellectual in an effort to show other forum members how big their internet penis is. If you get a good magnifying glass, you can almost see it.
hightor
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 11:06 am
@maiden-usa,
Quote:
How else could they find 1000 dumb-asses in America?

Going to a MAGA rally would be the easiest way.
Quote:

The point of this thread is to insult Americans...

No it isn't. It's simply pointing out deficiencies in USAmericans' knowledge of history. Most holocaust denial originates from the sorts of right-wing white supremacists with whom you seem to share political kinship.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 11:12 am
@Teufel,
I looked it up, it seems to be a decent study. However, they lose points because

1) They didn't publish the actual questions used.

2) Nor did they publish the metrics. If someone responded that 1 million Jews were killed... would this be a correct answer or an incorrect one.

I don't think the headline is correct. Here are two question to think about....

1) How many things did you learn in high school history that you no longer remember?

2) If someone accepts the Holocaust happened, but doesn't know any of the actual historical names of the death camps, who care?

I am not sure I care about this story. Adults (and it isn't just Americans) forget a lot that they learned in high school.

So what?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 11:21 am
Just to counter the outrage part of this outrage porn, consider these two questions.

1) In which country was the Auschwitz death camp located?

2) Does your inability to answer this question mean that you are either a Holocaust denier, or a racist?

Bonus question...

3) What is the name of the leader who was assassinated just before the Rwandan genocide?
hightor
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 12:42 pm
@maxdancona,
For extra points, explain this math:

Quote:
The survey saw 1,000 people between the ages of 18 and 39 interviewed - 200 from each US state - over the phone and online.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 12:49 pm
@hightor,
They picked the 1000 answers they wanted from the 10000 participants.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 12:50 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

For extra points, explain this math:

Quote:
The survey saw 1,000 people between the ages of 18 and 39 interviewed - 200 from each US state - over the phone and online.



Good catch. You are correct of course

50 * 200 is not equal to 1,000.

That made me chuckle.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 12:56 pm
@Teufel,
This study doesn't really insult Americans... it is politically motivated study that got exactly the answers that the people who paid for it wanted.

They didn't question anyone who wasn't American. There is nothing here to suggest that people in Europe (as highly as they think of themselves) would do any better.

There is also nothing to indicate that people who were unable to answer these questions are any more likely to be racist or to deny the Holocaust (the study did find the 90% of the Americans surveyed understand that the Holocaust happened).
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 01:11 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
If someone responded that 1 million Jews were killed... would this be a correct answer or an incorrect one.

Here:

Nationally, the survey found that 63 percent of all respondents did not know that six million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, and 36 percent thought that 'two million or fewer Jews' died.


So I guess that would be an incorrect answer.
Quote:
1) How many things did you learn in high school history that you no longer remember?

But the Holocaust has pretty much remained in the news since there have been stories about Holocaust denial, movies like Schindler's List, and numerous references made by political figures. It's not like the Quadratic Equation. I'm not surprised that some people have forgotten but 63% of people between 18 and 39 seems pretty high.
Quote:
If someone accepts the Holocaust happened, but doesn't know any of the actual historical names of the death camps, who care?

Obviously the people who conducted the survey and publicized the results care or they wouldn't have bothered — the Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany.
Quote:
Adults (and it isn't just Americans) forget a lot that they learned in high school.

True. I would guess that this group thinks that remembering this historical event is more important than knowing what the capital of Wyoming is.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 01:24 pm
@hightor,
I agree with your statistics (actually I double checked them).

Yes, that is a demonstrated fact. The majority of Americans surveyed underestimated the number of people killed in the Holocaust (many thinking the actual number is 1,000,000 or 2,000,000 rather than the real number which was around 6,000,000).

The following are not demonstrated facts

- It is not demonstrated that Americans are different than citizens of any other country.

- It is not demonstrated the someone who gets the number wrong has any undesirable views about the holocaust or about Jews or any other ethnic group.

People chose the wrong letter from a multiple choice test questions. So what?


0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 01:28 pm
@Teufel,
What is important to me is that

1. People accept that the Holocaust happened and that millions of people died.
2. Realize that this happened in a modern Western European country and was recent. We need to be humble and accept that the German people who accepted the Nazis were not that different from you and I (yes... this includes both liberals and conservative).

There is nothing in the survey I see that this contradicts this.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 01:34 pm
One thing that disturbs me...

- When Nazis were in power in Germany, they divided the country in Us vs Them. They believed that they were completely good and that their political enemies were completely evil. They refused to accept anything else or to hear any other perspective (in fact they stopped any other perspective by shooting them).

- Now the liberals believe that they are completely good and the conservatives are completely evil.

- Now the conservatives believe they are completely good and the liberals are completely evil.

Somehow it seems like we have missed the real lesson here.
shug23
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 02:35 pm
So are posters saying some history is good to remember, like the holocaust but sone history is bad to remember....like robert e lee......
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 02:40 pm
@shug23,
shug23 wrote:

So are posters saying some history is good to remember, like the holocaust but sone history is bad to remember....like robert e lee......


Don't be an asshole, Shug.

Remembering the Holocaust doesn't mean erecting statues to Geobbels. No one wants to forget the Confederacy or the Nazis. We just don't want statues celebrating the bad guys.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 02:50 pm
@maxdancona,
Stick to physics, Nazi ideology isn’t about good and evil. It’s about race wars. They believed races will always be in conflict and there can only be one winner.

That’s where all the social Darwinism about a master race comes into it. The Nazis didn’t believe their opponents were evil, they believed they were inferior.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 02:51 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Stick to physics, Nazi ideology isn’t about good and evil. It’s about race wars. They believed races will always be in conflict and there can only be one winner.

That’s where all the social Darwinism about a master race comes into it. The Nazis didn’t believe their opponents were evil, they believed they were inferior.


Do you believe your opponents are inferior, Izzy?
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 16 Sep, 2020 02:52 pm
@maxdancona,
What opponents?

I’m not a politician.
 

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