Interesting characters on a2k

georgeob1 wrote:

For example Infant mortality is lower in Europe than the US, but that is a likely result of the fact that on a per capita basis they produce not much more than half of what we produce here.

I've read this about a dozen times and I still can't make any sense of it.

How do you measure the differences between Europe and the US in those rather abstract qualities?

Female fertility (births/female) in Europe is generally about 60% of what it is here.

Country or territory[Note 1] 1950 /
1955 1955 /
1960 1960 /
1965 1965 /
1970 1970 /
1975 1975 /
1980 1980 /
1985 1985 /
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2000 2000 /
2005 2005 /
2010 <-CIA
1 Singapore 60.69 43.18 28.60 23.78 19.34 12.85 8.70 7.79 4.49 3.33 2.55 1.92 <-
2 Iceland 21.28 18.30 16.52 13.18 11.68 9.39 6.29 5.63 4.70 4.00 2.61 2.07 <-
3 Japan 50.07 37.25 25.83 16.48 11.95 8.75 6.63 4.96 4.44 3.76 3.04 2.62 <-
4 Sweden 19.51 16.79 15.51 12.41 10.44 7.85 6.70 6.09 5.27 3.64 3.33 2.56 <-
5 Finland 34.22 25.87 19.44 14.98 11.94 8.69 6.44 5.93 5.07 3.86 3.28 2.81 <-
6 Norway 22.35 18.89 16.82 13.87 11.23 9.07 7.44 8.42 5.81 4.01 3.52 3.00 <-
7 Luxembourg 43.50 36.70 28.81 20.82 17.87 13.07 11.92 8.88 7.26 4.86 4.95 2.32 <-
8 Czech Republic 43.86 23.86 20.81 22.03 20.53 17.72 14.61 11.45 8.46 5.21 3.90 3.19 <-
9 France 44.19 32.50 24.90 20.36 15.78 11.51 9.27 7.90 6.54 4.68 4.09 3.54 <-
10 Slovenia 67.20 43.00 29.90 26.50 21.50 17.10 13.48 10.75 7.64 4.97 4.07 3.51 <-
11 Switzerland 29.02 23.53 20.90 16.82 13.67 9.70 7.80 7.03 6.07 4.71 4.10 3.75 <-
12 Germany 50.58 38.43 29.08 22.87 21.11 14.93 10.76 8.07 5.98 4.75 4.15 3.71 <-
13 Spain 63.90 51.95 42.90 33.88 23.63 16.13 11.02 8.48 6.88 5.08 4.15 3.76 <-
14 Austria 55.08 43.18 32.76 26.42 24.31 16.90 12.55 9.47 7.12 4.81 4.52 3.97 <-
15 Belgium 41.61 31.36 27.33 21.16 17.18 13.26 10.38 9.05 7.87 5.13 4.37 3.81 <-
16 Italy 60.39 48.63 40.96 33.17 26.72 17.94 12.92 9.65 7.59 5.64 4.22 3.51 <-
17 Denmark 28.26 23.54 20.43 16.34 12.43 9.20 7.85 8.08 6.46 4.90 4.66 4.03 <-
18 Netherlands 23.00 18.25 15.65 13.26 10.97 9.25 8.29 7.35 6.17 5.29 4.86 4.42 <-
19 Australia 24.05 21.60 19.76 18.06 16.81 12.56 9.93 8.83 6.88 5.43 4.96 4.66 <-
20 Israel 38.92 33.05 28.32 24.33 20.68 17.11 13.74 10.79 8.36 6.44 4.98 3.85 <-
21 Ireland 41.42 34.25 28.08 22.90 18.28 15.19 10.22 8.39 6.79 6.11 5.51 4.04 <-
22 South Korea 137.95 114.36 89.74 64.19 38.11 33.23 24.61 14.85 9.74 6.61 5.32 3.76 <-
23 Portugal 92.82 88.58 78.86 61.19 47.14 31.47 20.33 14.49 9.54 6.49 4.75 4.45 <-
24 Canada 38.39 32.49 26.62 21.22 16.83 12.58 9.31 7.52 6.26 5.46 5.23 5.22 <-
25 United Kingdom 28.67 24.25 22.18 19.02 17.30 14.12 10.83 9.13 6.88 5.90 5.33 4.91 <-
26 New Caledonia 117.70 82.88 60.75 44.49 32.53 23.75 17.32 12.61 9.18 6.68 4.86 4.78 <-
27 Greece 60.00 56.10 50.20 42.40 34.10 25.10 15.30 11.22 8.28 6.92 4.80 4.65 <-
28 Brunei 90.19 68.84 52.12 39.11 29.30 21.93 16.39 12.24 9.13 6.81 5.08 4.78 <-
29 New Zealand 26.30 23.60 20.60 17.90 16.10 13.80 12.01 10.72 7.56 6.24 5.46 5.07 <-
30 Macau 66.06 54.73 42.75 33.34 25.98 20.22 15.73 12.22 9.49 7.37 5.71 4.43 <-
31 Cyprus 65.11 51.38 40.50 31.90 25.10 19.73 15.50 12.17 9.55 7.49 5.88 4.60 <-
32 Croatia 108.40 80.80 58.40 40.80 27.40 21.20 18.30 13.60 10.52 7.11 6.84 5.10 <-
33 Cuba 80.62 69.86 59.40 49.65 38.47 22.34 17.38 15.86 15.30 9.58 6.14 5.13 <-
34 United States 30.46 27.33 25.38 22.67 18.39 14.34 11.60 10.37 8.81 7.49 6.92 5.4 <-

georgeob1 wrote:

Female fertility (births/female) in Europe is generally about 60% of what it is here.

Ah, then it really doesn't make any sense. The infant mortality rate is based on the number of births (usually stated as # of deaths/thousand births), not on the number of people in a given country. The fertility rate (or birth rate), on the other hand, is based on the number of people. You're comparing apples and babies here.

Not true. Appropriately combined, <homegrown bullshit follows>

Not true. Appropriately combined, the two measures yield the # of surviving children per female.

If that's what you want to talk about now, that's fine. I really don't care. But that still doesn't make your original statement any less incomprehensible.

georgeob1 wrote:

Not true. Appropriately combined, the two measures yield the # of surviving children per female.

Well, this is sort of a joke, right? I mean, you start off by saying that the European infant mortality rate is understated in comparison to the American rate because Europeans have fewer babies, and now you claim that what you really wanted to say is that the number of surviving children per female is ... well, it's something, I'm not sure what. If that's what you want to talk about now, that's fine. I really don't care. But that still doesn't make your original statement any less incomprehensible.

Aren't infant mortality rates standardised to a number per 1,000 or 100,000 births (not sure of what figure it actually is) and hence perfectly able to be compared across most countries?

if I provide links to such data (as Beth says, we could drown you in it) I have no confidence you'll attend to it nor take any following posture other than one which seeks to refute (in generalizations) anything that challenges your ideological positions.

You badly mischaracterize my original statements.

A small decrement in infant mortality in Europe is frequently cited as evidence of a significant superiority I European health care compared to ours. I pointed out that there are many differences in the situations of the two regions that could affect the comparability of these measures. Among them are immigration rates, and the basic birth rates. Birth rates are much lower in Europe and populations across the continent are on the verge of significant decline.

If you want to find that confusing it's OK with me.

Infant mortality rate compares the number of deaths of infants under one year old in a given year per 1,000 live births in the same year. This rate is often used as an indicator of the level of health in a country.