During The American Revolutionary War, the state religion of Great Britain was Christianity?

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

oristarA wrote:
I said "state religion requires the heir apparent always keeps faith in God and keep it in daily life". It doesn't need to hold a state religion rite for demanding such requirement. The rules of the state religion are already there. The heir apparent must abide by the rules.

After reading your informative response again, I must admit that I do understand it, but might got it wrong.

Would you kindly help me again, oristarA? I'm really eager to learn and get better educated!

So the requirement of the heir apparent to keep "faith in God and keep it in daily life" explains Charles II's and George IV's constant whoring. It probably explains George IV's membership of The Hellfire Club, a pious and holy organisation.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

So the requirement of the heir apparent to keep "faith in God and keep it in daily life" explains Charles II's and George IV's constant whoring. It probably explains George IV's membership of The Hellfire Club, a pious and holy organisation.

Of course our senior expert oristarA will have a more nuanced response, but I think, you are correct.
And that's why Edward VIII addicted .... wait, wait, he wasn't crowned.

So Edward VIII was just a so-called King and so-called head of the Church of England. But why is he listed, signed laws and church papers?

I have to wait for oristarA's help again.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

After reading your informative response again, I must admit that I do understand it, but might got it wrong.

So Henry VIII separated of the Church of England from the Roman Catholic Church, became "head" of it. As did all the following monarchs.

But only since the time of William III the king has sworn to maintain "the Protestant Reformed Religion established by Law",before it was the Church of God ('ecclesia') - something which I don't get either since the Church of England isn't protestant but "catholic and reformed" according to self-description.

Would you kindly help me again, oristarA? I'm really eager to learn and get better educated!

A2K is obviously a college in cyberspace, as McTag once has indicated.

Before we go further, an asker should have known:

(1) It is important to make your question open to all members of A2K. There are various experts active in this forum.

(2) Ask a right question. For example, when you said you don't understand "the Church of God", you should understand in the first place that something like "the Church of God" is way too big a topic: its origin, its structure, its current situation and its future development trend... too many factors in this one topic! Which factor do you want to know? Make it clear before you ask people here.

(3) Put your question in a right form.
A poor form of a question is that the asker just posts: I don't know this or that, can you help me?
A proper form of a question will put forth how the asker himself understands the question and where is the problem so that an answerer can get a clear clue to help analyse.

1 Reply

@oristarA,

You see, dearest oristarA, I do know how life goes on in the academic world.

And I do know how to write a thesis, how to structure a reading, a seminar, a lecture etc etc - not only that I did it but I wrote the brochure for the students of my faculty about that.

But that is something different - this is A2K, whatever McTag or you or some else says about it.

I don't want answers from other members since it's a question about something you wrote and claimed.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

I suggest for reading about the above mentioned questions/problems:
Monarchy web site - http://www.royal.gov.uk/,
Robert Blackburn, King and Country, 2006,
Vernon Bogdanor, The Monarchy and the Constitution, 1995,
R Allison and S Riddell (ed), Royal Encyclopaedia, 1991,
Roy Strong, Coronation, 2005,
Janos M Bak, Coronations: Medieval and Early Modern Monarchic Ritual, 1990,
Nicholas Kent, A Modern Monarchy TRG, 1995,
Edward Ratcliff, The Coronation Service of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, SPCK, 1953,
Pauline Stafford (Editor), Gender, Family And the Legitimation of Power: England from the Ninth to Early Twelfth Century (Variorum Collected Studies), 2006

A bit more controversial to the above named 'traditional' literature are the well researched articles, book sections and books by Dr. Alice Hunt (as already said, she's a senior lecturer for English):
Hunt, Alice (2009) The Tudor coronation ceremonies in history and criticism. Literature Compass, 6,
Hunt, Alice (2008) The drama of coronation: medieval ceremony in early modern England, Cambridge, UK, Cambridge University Press, 242pp.,
Hunt, Alice (2010) Reforming tradition: the coronations of Mary and Elizabeth. In, Hunt, Alice and Whitelock, Anna (eds.) Tudor Queenship: The Reigns of Mary and Elizabeth. New York City, US, Palgrave Macmillan , 63-79. (Queenship and Power),
Hunt, Alice (2007) Legitimacy, ceremony and drama: Mary Tudor’s coronation and respublica. In, Happé, Peter and Hüsken, Wim (eds.) Interludes and Early Modern Society: Studies in Gender, Power and Theatricality. Amsterdam, NL, Rodopi, 331-351. (Ludus: Medieval and Early Renaissance Theatre and Drama 9).

To compare the situation in England with that in other European monachies, but still mainly focusing on England:
Nenner, Howard: The Right to be King: The Succession to the Crown of England. 1603-1714, 1995

Just a short, personal and incomplete selection.

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@oristarA,

oristarA wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I do understand your English very well. Thank you!

I don't understand why the official website of the British monarchy,
lawyers and historians don't follow your argumentation.

(And what about all those monarchs, who weren't crowned at all?)

You still haven't got the nuance there: theirs and mine are consistent:

Quote:
The coronation of the British monarch is a ceremony (specifically, initiation rite) in which the monarch of the United Kingdom is formally crowned and invested with regalia. It corresponds to coronation ceremonies that formerly occurred in other European monarchies, which have currently abandoned coronations in favour of inauguration or enthronement ceremonies.

The coronation usually takes place several months after the death of the previous monarch, as it is considered a joyous occasion that would be inappropriate when mourning still continues. This also gives planners enough time to complete the elaborate arrangements required. For example, Elizabeth II was crowned on 2 June 1953, having ascended the throne on 6 February 1952.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronation_of_the_British_monarch#Recognition_and_oath

Thanks for the link, Oristar.
I looked at it and I don t see anything about going to war,
nor about any obligation of God to lead military wars.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

oristarA wrote:

A new monarch got to be introduced by a ceremony of coronation,
in which they had to swear their loyalty to the Providence.
""Affirmati Non Neganti Incumbit Probatio"
Since ancient times, it has been recognized
that the burden of proof is on he who asserts a proposition.

Will you be good enuf to quote and exhibit the specific oath that you have in mind,
for our analytical scrutiny, Oristar ?

The coronation ceremony takes quite a while, during which the king or queen might swear all kinds of oaths, of un-certain quantities of oaths, as the minutes and hours roll along. We look forward eagerly to your citation to the particular one that you mean.

David

There are many. Here are two examples:

Quote:

(1) the Oath as set down in the Coronation Oath Act 1688

Archbishop or bishop:
Will you to the utmost of your power maintaine the laws of God the true profession of the Gospell and the Protestant reformed religion established by law? And will you preserve unto the bishops and clergy of this realme and to the churches committed to their charge all such rights and priviledges as by law doe or shall appertaine unto them or any of them.

King and Queene.
All this I promise to doe.
After this the King and Queene laying his and her hand upon the Holy Gospells, shall say,
King and Queene.
The things which I have here before promised I will performe and keepe Soe help me God.
Then the King and Queene shall kisse the booke

(2) the oath taken by Elizabeth II in 1953:

Archbishop. Will you to the utmost of your power maintain the Laws of God and the true profession of the Gospel? Will you to the utmost of your power maintain in the United Kingdom the Protestant Reformed Religion established by law? Will you maintain and preserve inviolably the settlement of the Church of England, and the doctrine, worship, discipline, and government thereof, as by law established in England? And will you preserve unto the Bishops and Clergy of England, and to the Churches there committed to their charge, all such rights and privileges, as by law do or shall appertain to them or any of them?

Queen. All this I promise to do.

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I looked at it and I don t see anything about going to war,
nor about any obligation of God to lead military wars.

Kings tried their best to maintain the Laws of God, while under the flag of the Laws of Nature, Americans waged wars against them!
The Laws of God versus The Laws of Nature.
The latter won and America got independent.

1 Reply

@oristarA,

oristarA wrote:

... while under the flag of the Laws of Nature, Americans waged wars against them!
The Laws of God versus The Laws of Nature.
The latter won and America got independent.

(Reverend James Caldwell at the Battle of Springfield. Watercolor by Henry Alexander Ogden. Presbyterian Historical Society, Philadelphia)

(Gostelowe Standard No. 10, c. 1776. Watercolor once in possession of Edward W. Richardson. Copyprint. Courtesy of the Pennsylvania Society of Sons of the Revolution and Its Color Guard)

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@Walter Hinteler,

I've been twice to Lexington [note to oristarA: that's for George just blocks away] - on a guided tour, and years later on my own (and a full day) to see what interested me, less the tourist stuff.
Lexington's Minute Men, the very first "revolutionary military", are associated with the motto "for religion and honor".

James Thacher, surgeon during the Revolution in the Massachusetts 16th Regiment, wrote in Military Journal during the American Revolutionary War(1823) on page 17 about "the law of nature" of those brave Revolutionary Americans - though he called it different

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I've been twice to Lexington [note to oristarA: that's for George just blocks away] -
on a guided tour, and years later on my own (and a full day) to see what interested me,
less the tourist stuff.

The American Mensa Annual Gathering was in Boston this summer.
I attended several historical tours of the area, including Lexington & Concord.
My sympathies were with the Sons of Liberty, in their anti-tyrannical cause,
but I 'm not sure where that gave us the right to rob the King of his real estate.
Except for his consent in 1783 in the Treaty of Paris,
if the Queen demanded it back, I m not sure by what logic we cud refuse.

I think lightning just struck in my backyard; quite a rainstorm.

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I think lightning just struck in my backyard; quite a rainstorm.

I really want that to be a euphemism.

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@izzythepush,

THANK U, Izzy.
I was talking real estate.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Is that another euphamism?

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

No, no; that 's me in my literalism.

David

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The lightning took out some of my clocks.
It was necessary to reset them.

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

My sympathies were with the Sons of Liberty, in their anti-tyrannical cause,
but I 'm not sure where that gave us the right to rob the King of his real estate.
Except for his consent in 1783 in the Treaty of Paris,
if the Queen demanded it back, I m not sure by what logic we cud refuse.

Interesting question, Dave.
Why not think of it this way: on what logic the Queen has the right to demand the King's real estate back?
If you are the Queen, list your reasons please.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I've been twice to Lexington [note to oristarA: that's for George just blocks away] - on a guided tour, and years later on my own (and a full day) to see what interested me, less the tourist stuff.
Lexington's Minute Men, the very first "revolutionary military", are associated with the motto "for religion and honor".

James Thacher, surgeon during the Revolution in the Massachusetts 16th Regiment, wrote in Military Journal during the American Revolutionary War(1823) on page 17 about "the law of nature" of those brave Revolutionary Americans - though he called it different

That is understandable. It is skeptical that James Thacher would have the sharp vision and insight of Thomas Jefferson.
The founding fathers promoted religious tolerance. Every man who's religious upheld his religion as holy, and enlightened non-believers based their ideas on reason and science, seriously of course.

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@oristarA,

oristarA wrote:

It is skeptical that James Thacher would have the sharp vision and insight of Thomas Jefferson.

Perhaps Thatcher really saw less of the war and fightings as Jefferson did, and certainly Jefferson's wartime journals are of a sharper vision and insight.

Ahem, to which wartime journals by Jefferson do you refer here?

And certainly the Rt Reverend James Caldwell and all the other clerics of the revolutionary army were exceptions, their Christian flags just adopted decorations?

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@Walter Hinteler,

Reverend Caldwell and his wife were both killed before the war ended by the British. Certainly, because this Presbyterian minister and chaplain during the Revolutionary War didn't have Jefferson's sharp vision and insight. But what about the other chaplains who survived and served as parish priests after the war?

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During The American Revolutionary War, the state religion of Great Britain was Christianity?

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