@oristarA,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
oristarA wrote:They are the supreme governor of Church of England, after all.
That does not give them authority over God.
U can found a church tomorrow, if u want to and u can appoint yourself to be its Pope.
That will not enable u successfully to order God around.
oristarA wrote: Of course NOT.
They dare not to order God, only implore God to help them win the war.
God is their greatest spiritual Master as long as they keep Christianity or whatsoever religion as their state religion - the root of their faith (they cannot be without faith!)
The kings and queens of Great Britain believe that their sovereign power is bestowed to them by God.
So they have to be guided by the divine God! There is no alternative to this Spiritual Force.
Are u
defining the Divine Will
as being whatever the King wants ??
Don t lose sight of the fact
that Christian kings have gone to war against one another; many times.
oristarA wrote: That is exactly why I've quoted Jefferson earlier:
"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."
Am I defending the Divine Will of God?
NO. That 's not the question. Look again.
I asked whether u are
DEFINING the Divine Will
to be whatever the King wants?? (for instance: to win a war)
@oristarA,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
OmSigDAVID wrote:
oristarA wrote:They are the supreme governor of Church of England, after all.
That does not give them authority over God.
U can found a church tomorrow, if u want to and u can appoint yourself to be its Pope.
That will not enable u successfully to order God around.
oristarA wrote: Of course NOT.
They dare not to order God, only implore God to help them win the war.
God is their greatest spiritual Master as long as they keep Christianity or whatsoever religion as their state religion - the root of their faith (they cannot be without faith!)
The kings and queens of Great Britain believe that their sovereign power is bestowed to them by God.
So they have to be guided by the divine God! There is no alternative to this Spiritual Force.
Are u
defining the Divine Will
as being whatever the King wants ??
Don t lose sight of the fact
that Christian kings have gone to war against one another; many times.
oristarA wrote: That is exactly why I've quoted Jefferson earlier:
"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."
Am I defending the Divine Will of God?
NO. That 's not the question. Look again.
I asked whether u are
DEFINING the Divine Will
to be whatever the King wants?? (for instance: to win a war)
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
That 's not the question. Look again.
I asked whether u are DEFINING the Divine Will to be whatever the King wants?? (for instance: to win a war)
My definiton about the Divine Will has been given in that reply:
Quote:Yet why religious people, including these kings and queens are so devoted to worship of God? One of hypotheses is that there is perhaps a religious module in our brain which makes you feel being fondly loved, well protected, divinely guided, and in your dedicated worshipping, leads to spiritual orgasm that is much like sexual pleasure (see Saint Teresa of Avila).
The spiritual pleasure derived from God worshipping would have entrapped you in religion, whether you are common people, kings or queens.
This spiritual pleasure is also much like that induced by narcotics, in which a drug taker has the hallucination that he can have what he wants. The God Delusion induced by religious dedication has the same effect.
@oristarA,
That is a
non-sequitur,
in that it does not relate to my question.
Regardless of the King being the head of the Church of England,
there is no evidence that the King ever alleged that God was involved
on either side of the American Revolution. If His Majesty actually
DID
have any comment on that, then I will be glad to find out about it.
I believe that he did
not rally his troops with any religious exhortation.
It was not like the Crusades. If anyone is aware of evidence to the contrary,
then please set it forth for scrutiny.
David
@OmSigDAVID,
You can't confine your mind to your profession (attorny) when discussing acts of state and its governor.
During their coronations, kings and queens get to promise and swear that they will to the utmost of their power maintain the Laws of God (not Jefferson's "the Laws of Nature"! Do you see how Jefferson, with his incredible courage and penetrating insight, reformed this ideologically?) . They have to obey the Laws of God in state affairs, including waging wars. That is, waging a war must first follow the Laws of God and the King's war must first seek the guidance from the divine God. Non-sequitur? No, a reasonable conclusion.
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:
You can't confine your mind to your profession (attorny) when discussing acts of state and its governor.
During their coronations, kings and queens get to promise and swear that they will to the utmost of their power maintain the Laws of God (not Jefferson's "the Laws of Nature"! Do you see how Jefferson, with his incredible courage and penetrating insight, reformed this ideologically?) . They have to obey the Laws of God in state affairs, including waging wars. That is, waging a war must first follow the Laws of God and the King's war must first seek the guidance from the divine God. Non-sequitur? No, a reasonable conclusion.
So far as I am
aware,
the King conceived of his military operations
qua the American Revolution to be
secular, (un-like the Crusades)
regardless of his status as head of the Church,
similar to Bush sending troops to oust Saddam from Kuwait.
His Majesty did
not send religious leaders along to exhort his troops.
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
So far as I am aware, the King conceived of his military operations
qua the American Revolution to be secular, (un-like the Crusades)
regardless of his status as head of the Church, similar to Bush sending troops to oust Saddam from Kuwait.
His Majesty did not send religious leaders along to exhort his troops.
Get to search the information about the King's prayers. I believe His Majesty had very likely prayed that God led his army to victory in that war.
Plus, aren't there padres in both British and American military forces?
(To continue)
If you believe the Declaration of Indepnedence is at the center of the American Revolutionary War, it is no doubt that you will believe Thomas Jefferson, as the author of the Declaration, is at the center of the war.
You know how the Declaration shocked the enemy: the King and his Parliament and his loyal followers... Thomas Jefferson had been fighting at the heart of the enemy throughout the war. Denying Jefferson's vital role in the war is almost denying the Revolution itself.
A war can never be justified without a good reason, or without decent guiding ideas. What Jefferson expressed in the Declaration is exactly the good reason, or the decent guiding ideas.
American Revolutionary War had two fronts: one militarily, led by Goerge Washington; the other ideologically, led by Thomas Jefferson and other founding fathers.
The Declaration, at its very beginning, scientifically indicates that the Laws of Nature guides the Independence. If we use a word to sum up "the Laws of Nature", it is Reason.
Reason is at the center of Enlightenment, which contributed to the drop of the rate of the attendance of church in Great Britain. As I've indicated previously that when you spend time, energy and other resources in pursuing reason, you will have less time, energy ect. to pay attention to religious God or the church. Jefferson had been a leader of this enlightenment movement. After elected as President, he continued to push forward the great cause, which reflects from his inaugural addresses.
With Americans winning the war, the spirit of the Declaration began to spread around the world. Undoubtedly, the victory of the war itself, or the successful Independence of the United States itself, is the greatest achievement of the Enlightenment. Under the flag of the Laws of Nature, we have sufficient reasons to suppose that the great achievements of the Enlightenment had had significant influence on Charles Darwin, who, guided by the Laws of Nature, formulated a theory of evolution by natural selection, which is well expressed in the Origin of Species, and in turn offers great momentum for further advancement of the Enlightenment and leads to the increased drop of the rate of church attendance in Great Britain.
(To be continued)
@oristarA,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
So far as I am aware, the King conceived of his military operations
qua the American Revolution to be secular, (un-like the Crusades)
regardless of his status as head of the Church, similar to Bush sending troops to oust Saddam from Kuwait.
His Majesty did not send religious leaders along to exhort his troops.
oristarA wrote: Get to search the information about the King's prayers.
No. That is too labor intensive.
oristarA wrote:I believe His Majesty had very likely prayed that God led his army to victory in that war.
That 's very likely,
but it was still a
secular war.
The King did not impugn American Christianity, so far as I know.
oristarA wrote:Plus, aren't there padres in both British and American military forces?
Thay are there to
comfort the troops,
not to lead them.
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
oristarA wrote:I believe His Majesty had very likely prayed that God led his army to victory in that war.
That 's very likely,
but it was still a
secular war.
The King did not impugn American Christianity, so far as I know.
Yes still secular. Yet still guided by God, because the King believed that all his power was bestowed to him by God.
He didn't impugn American Christianity, yes. He just killed American Christian soldiers, and told them that it was justified by God to levy taxation without representation.
@George,
Do you think who's the "President" in that letter, George?
Quote: the President himself declaring, in one of his answers to addresses, that we were never to expect to go beyond them in real science
By the time Jefferson wrote the letter, he had been the President for a little more than two weeks. I guess the "President" he inclined to criticize is John Adam. But I am not very sure about this.
@oristarA,
I believe you are correct.
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:I had in mind a more effective yield over more territory.
You'll like what Mr. Obama is planning for our nuclear arsenal then.
We're going to get a new series of warheads called
Interoperable Warheads that will be able to serve equally well on ICBMs and SLBMs.
IW-1 and
IW-2 will both have a yield of approximately half-a-megaton (455kt to be precise).
When we transition over to the new warheads, that should make for a noteworthy improvement over the one-third megaton warheads currently on all of our ICBMs and one-tenth megaton warheads currently on most of our SLBMs.
@oristarA,
I 'm not an expert on chaplains,
but I 'm under the impression
that thay offer soldiers their advice.
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:I believe His Majesty had very likely prayed that God led his army to victory in that war.
OmSigDAVID wrote:That 's very likely,
but it was still a secular war.
The King did not impugn American Christianity, so far as I know.
oristarA wrote:Yes still secular. Yet still guided by God, because the King believed
that all his power was bestowed to him by God.
I suspect that the doctrine of the
Divine Right of kings
expired with the end of Charles Stuart.
Charles II was installed by Parliament, after his dad was murdered by Cromwell.
I doubt that Charles II alleged that he had been put into office by God.
When the Hanover Dynasty took over, it was a matter
of inheriting real estate, not a theological event.
oristarA wrote:He didn't impugn American Christianity, yes.
He just killed American Christian soldiers
King George Hanover III did that, yes.
oristarA wrote:and told them
that it was justified by God to levy taxation without representation.
U have
EVIDENCE that he
asserted that allegation??
Thank u for that information.
Is this an archeological discovery from the 17OOs??
David
I was on a bus tour of London back in 1976. There were lots of us
Americans on the tour. I'm not sure how it came up, but the guide
told us that the taxation was only to support the British troops
protecting the colonists from the Indians.
I shouted out that they would have done better to protect the Indians
from the colonists. Got a big laugh from my fellow tourists.
@George,
George wrote:
I was on a bus tour of London back in 1976. There were lots of us
Americans on the tour. I'm not sure how it came up, but the guide
told us that the taxation was only to support the British troops
protecting the colonists from the Indians.
I shouted out that they would have done better to protect the Indians
from the colonists. Got a big laugh from my fellow tourists.
An excellent rebuttal, if only you commented it in a manner gentle and graceful.
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
oristarA wrote:and told them
that it was justified by God to levy taxation without representation.
U have
EVIDENCE that he
asserted that allegation??
Thank u for that information.
Is this an archeological discovery from the 17OOs??
David
That will be labor intensive in searching out concrete evidence, Dave. The King considered himself the Law itself, authorised by God.
