Israel's Reality

@buttflake,

That's three days old news .... which has been corrected by "Channel 10" on Tuesday already.

0 Replies

@buttflake,

buttflake wrote:

Still no answers?

Were those questions in that quoted article directed to me? Read it again, waterman!

1 Reply

@buttflake,

Only a Jew hater would deem the LDJ as representative of all Jews.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

France seem slower to reacted then most nations including Israel who ban the group in 1994.

Quote:

s://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League

In 1994, the JDL's sister movements Kach and Kahane Chai were both outlawed in Israel as terrorist organizations posing a threat to state security

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Quote:

Only a Jew hater would deem the LDJ as representative of all Jews.

Then you do? After all, you are a hater.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

Were those questions in that quoted article directed to me? Read it again, waterman!

Yes they were. Got the answers, or more names?

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@buttflake,

buttflake wrote:

Some hate Oliver

Quote:
5. Qatari imam prays about the Jews: “Count them one by one, and kill them to the very last one.”

Quote:
delivered a Friday sermon on Qatar TV on July 18,

Quote:
Oh, Allah increase the pressure You exert upon the plundering Jews. Demonstrate upon them the miracles of Your might, for they are no match to You. Count them one by one, and kill them to the very last one. Do not spare a single one of them. Oh Allah, disperse them. Oh Lord, freeze the blood in their veins. Oh Allah, tear them asunder. Oh Allah, sow discord in their hearts. Oh Allah, do not let them prevail. Make an example of them for their allies. Oh Allah, bring down the planes of their air force, burn their infantry and sink the ships of their navy.

Quote:
4. Berlin imam: “Oh Allah, destroy the Zionist Jews…. Count them and kill them to the very last one.”

That same day,

Quote:
Oh Allah, destroy the Zionist Jews. They are no challenge for you. Count them and kill them to the very last one. Don’t spare a single one of them. Shake the ground beneath their feet. Make them suffer terribly. Deflect their bullets. Disperse them. They behave tyrannically all over the world and spread corruption. Oh Lord, bring torment upon them.

Quote:
3. Iran’s Supreme Leader: The “only solution” is Israel’s “destruction”

On Wednesday, 7/23/14

Quote:

As said by Imam Khomeini, Israel must be destroyed.… However, until that time with the help of Allah for this cruel and murderous regime to be destroyed, strong confrontation with steadfast armed resistance is the only solution against this destructive regime.

[/quote]

All of your quotes, cited above, seem to be from one Imam or another, but what does the Q'uran say about "killing Jews"?

3 Replies

@Miller,

Quote:

Miller wrote:

buttflake wrote:

Some hate Oliver

Quote:
5. Qatari imam prays about the Jews: “Count them one by one, and kill them to the very last one.”

Quote:
delivered a Friday sermon on Qatar TV on July 18,

Quote:
Oh, Allah increase the pressure You exert upon the plundering Jews. Demonstrate upon them the miracles of Your might, for they are no match to You. Count them one by one, and kill them to the very last one. Do not spare a single one of them. Oh Allah, disperse them. Oh Lord, freeze the blood in their veins. Oh Allah, tear them asunder. Oh Allah, sow discord in their hearts. Oh Allah, do not let them prevail. Make an example of them for their allies. Oh Allah, bring down the planes of their air force, burn their infantry and sink the ships of their navy.

Quote:
4. Berlin imam: “Oh Allah, destroy the Zionist Jews…. Count them and kill them to the very last one.”

That same day,

Quote:
Oh Allah, destroy the Zionist Jews. They are no challenge for you. Count them and kill them to the very last one. Don’t spare a single one of them. Shake the ground beneath their feet. Make them suffer terribly. Deflect their bullets. Disperse them. They behave tyrannically all over the world and spread corruption. Oh Lord, bring torment upon them.

Quote:
3. Iran’s Supreme Leader: The “only solution” is Israel’s “destruction”

On Wednesday, 7/23/14

Quote:
As said by Imam Khomeini, Israel must be destroyed.… However, until that time with the help of Allah for this cruel and murderous regime to be destroyed, strong confrontation with steadfast armed resistance is the only solution against this destructive regime.

All of your quotes, cited above, seem to be from one Imam or another, but what does the Q'uran say about "killing Jews"?

Exactly, Miller. And even the quote supposedly from Khomeini...talks about the state of Israel...not about Jews.

The Arabs do not want the state of Israel to exist there. They have that right...just as the Jews want the state of Israel to exist there.

But I have yet to see anything that indicates that Islam wants to kill all Jews...and I think that is hyperbole on Buttflake's part.

I understand the notion, because Jews have been unwelcome in many places...but hyperbole does not help in this discussion.

Buttflake...you really ought to withdraw that "annihilate every last Jew from the face of the Earth" comment.

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@Miller,

Muslim nations have offer shelter more then once from Christians pogrom in history and in one case sending ships to move them to safety from Spain.

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@Miller,

Muslim nations have offer shelter more then once to Jews facing Christians pogroms in history and in one case sending ships to move them to safety from Spain.

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Here are a few key verses from the Koran that explain the muslim mindset.
This one gives them the right to kill in a "just cause" which to many muslims means Israel's invasion of Palestine in the 1967 Six-Day War (among other things)-
"And do not kill any one whom Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause, and whoever is slain unjustly. We have indeed given to his heir authority, so let him not exceed the just limits in slaying; surely he is aided" [Koran 17:33]

And this verse allows them to kill all infidels near them, such as Israel-
"O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard against evil" [Koran 9.123]

This one shows how muslims lump Jews and Christians together-
"O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people" [Koran 5:51]

But this one shows muslims do have a bit of a soft spot for Christians, so if ever Islam takes over the world, Christians will probably be the last to be slaughtered-
"Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe to be the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe to be those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly" [Koran 5:82]

2 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

So it's not impossible to see how this terrible violence can be the prelude to peace. Once Hamas is, for all intents and purposes, removed from the equation, I think that there will be a lot of pressure on Netanyahu, from within Israel to obtain a resolution.

Is there anything Netanyahu can do about the Palestinian refusal to make peace?

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Obviously, I am a supporter of Israel, but if they don't make more than even just a good-faith effort to secure peace after this bloody business is over, I am going to have to question my support.

What "more" can Israel do besides make a good-faith effort?

Personally I'm weary of the never-ending good faith efforts on Israel's part, and I will not blame Israel if they say the Palestinians have blown their last chance. But who knows. Maybe Netanyahu has more patience than I do.

I can't see what more they can do besides make yet another good faith effort though.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

The time has come to put all the chips on the table and that includes those a fairly large segment of the population doesn't want to see played. It could cost Netanyahu his position as leader of the country, but he has to be prepared for that to happen and to give up most if not all of the Settlements.

Most of the settlers are close to the Green Line and can be accommodated with land swaps.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

He'll never give in on the Right of Return or Jerusalem,

Israel has always agreed to share Jerusalem before. On what basis do you accuse Netanyahu of not being willing to do so?

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

so there must be someplace else to bend and bend enough, despite the pain, to allow the Palestinians to feel that they have gained despite their losses.

Well if the Palestinians decide to make peace, they'll gain their own state. That would be quite a gain.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

This is why despite the mounting civilian casualties, the US has to let Israel play its hand. It's very possible that even after doing so, peace will not be achieved, but if it's stopped now, and Hamas regroups and returns to its ways, then the deaths will have been totally senseless, and more will eventually follow.

True.

But keep in mind that there are not nearly as many deaths as is claimed.

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

It is in Israel's best interest to assure that a Palestinian state be economically viable. It cannot assure that the state is democratic (only the Palestinians can do that), but peace will be fleeting if Palestinians believe that they have been given an economic basket case for a nation, and can tie any of it's limitations to Israel.
The US was wise to assist Germany and Japan rebuild their nations physically and economically. The allies after WWI were very foolish in helping to destroy Germany's economy.
Clearly, Israel is not going wipe out all traces of the Palestinian people and unless it wants to remain at war for another hundred years, it will have to pay for peace. Since the Right of Return and Jerusalem are too high a price to pay, it must be something else. Assisting in building a viable economy is not a huge price (the US and the rest of the world will be there to help), and it will be a good investment.

The Palestinians have always been offered a viable state (and lots of economic economic assistance) if they make peace. They've just never been willing to make peace.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Israel is no where close to being this enlightened in its dealings with the Palestinians. The Jews appear to be slow learners. They used to be better.

Israel has repeatedly offered the Palestinians a just resolution, and has offered it over and over and over and over again for decades.

It isn't Israel's fault that Palestinians refuse to make peace.

0 Replies

@hingehead,

hingehead wrote:

This just depresses me. More so when I think that it only covers July 7 to July 21

The Dead Children Gambit tends to arouse boredom in me. But to each their own.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

How do American citizens feel about their truckloads of tax dollars and super-duper weapon systems being given to Israel over the past 50 years?

We are delighted and proud.

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Can't the yanks see that by supporting Israel they're making America a terror target as 'Israel's friend'? Don't they mind?

Terrorism is caused by the presence of Muslims, not by friendship with Israel.

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Here are a few key verses from the Koran that explain the muslim mindset.
This one gives them the right to kill in a "just cause" which to many muslims means Israel's invasion of Palestine in the 1967 Six-Day War (among other things)-
"And do not kill any one whom Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause, and whoever is slain unjustly. We have indeed given to his heir authority, so let him not exceed the just limits in slaying; surely he is aided" [Koran 17:33]

And this verse allows them to kill all infidels near them, such as Israel-
"O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard against evil" [Koran 9.123]

This one shows how muslims lump Jews and Christians together-
"O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people" [Koran 5:51]

But this one shows muslims do have a bit of a soft spot for Christians, so if ever Islam takes over the world, Christians will probably be the last to be slaughtered-
"Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe to be the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe to be those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly" [Koran 5:82]

Quotes from your god, Romeo:

"If a man has a stubborn and unruly son who will not listen to
his father or mother, and will not obey them even though they
chastise him, his father and mother shall have him apprehended
and brought out to the elders at the gate of his home city, where
...his fellow citizens shall stone him to death." Deuteronomy 22:18ff

"When you march up to attack a city, first offer terms of peace.
If it agrees to your terms of peace and opens its gates to you,
all the people to be found in it shall serve you in forced labor.
But if it refuses to make peace with you and instead offers you
battle, lay siege to it, and when the Lord, your God, delivers it
into your hand, put every male in it to the sword, but the women
and children and livestock and all else in it that is worth
plunder you may take as your booty and you may use this plunder
of your enemies which the Lord, your God, has given you." Deuteronomy 20:10

"I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishments
for their fathers' wickedness on the children of those who hate
me, down to the third and fourth generation." Deuteronomy 5:9

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. [Deuteronomy 13:7-12]

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." [Deuteronomy 13:13-19]

The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' [Exodus 31:12-15]

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

The drawback for Israel being on America's payroll is that she's not free to defend herslf as she sees fit, but must go asking for America's permission.

Nonsense.

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

For example when Saddam Scudded Israel, Israel wanted to nuke him,

Nonsense.

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

And more recently Israel wanted to bomb Iran's nuclear reactors, but America said "NO!" again.

No we didn't. We persuaded them to let us handle it.

If they lose faith in us, they have the right to launch their own attack.

0 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

From American media's new pro-Israel bias: the same party line at the wrong time

Quote:
[...]
● What would you do if a foreign country was occupying your land?
● What does it mean that Israeli cabinet ministers deny Palestine’s right to exist?
● What should we make of a prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, who as opposition leader in the 1990s was found addressing rallies under a banner reading “Death to Arabs”?
[...]
It’s no secret that younger Americans do not rely on the nightly news, cable networks or printed newspapers for information in the way many older people do. The internet has opened access to foreign news media, which often has a different take in Israel, and has opened up a stream of links to to first-hand accounts as well as writing by analysts and activists who offer insights and information wilfully ignored by the Bob Schieffers and Sean Hannitys of the world.
There is evidence of a shift in public opinion, mostly generational: a Pew poll this month showed falling support for Israel among younger Americans. Over 65s backed the Jewish state by 60% to just 9% support for the Palestinians. Among young adults, aged 18-29, just 44% were behind Israel with backing for the Palestinians rising to 22%.
As opinion shifts, it will be harder to go on presenting just one side of the story.

The differing view of youth is because many of them simply don't know any better. When they get older many of them will begin to think for themselves and will start rejecting anti-Semitic lies.

It's kind of like when people pretend that Conservatism is doomed because so many Conservatives are old people and so many young people are Liberals. That completely neglects the fact that a lot of kids wise up as they get older.

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@buttflake,

Quote:

Hamas Executes 20 Palestinians Who Attended Anti-War Protest For Being "Israeli Collaborators"

Those 20 are now going to be posed as "victims of Israel" over and over and over again.

0 Replies

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