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George Galloway Full of Crap When He Says Jews have no right to be in Palestine

 
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 03:28 pm
@Setanta,
Don't know really, guess I understood about foofie being sort of hateful, (actually I am kind of surprised at it)since you mentioned it, just responded to your post. I apologize if it offends you in some way.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 03:44 pm
@revelette2,
Well, your post was sufficiently opaque that i thought you might be accusing me of being antisemitic. Forget about it.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 07:30 pm
@Setanta,
Yeah, it was at that.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 07:33 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

...How about you taking a look at things with a bit more perspective, Foofie. Since Jews have not been able to get along with neighbors ANYWHERE...is it not possible they bear some of the responsibility for that inability?


[/quote]

Oh, you mean Jews, being a successful minority should not offend the sensitive level of self-esteem, of the lower echelon of Gentile society, by pandering to their collective ego? Yes, I guess in that case Jews are the problem, since they are the same stiff necked Hebrews that Yul Brynner in the Ten Commandments (as the Pharoh) referred to them. Yes, Jews cannot be insular, or the sensitive Gentile masses get offended. In that case, bring on the sensitive Gentile masses, so I can snub them into a teeth grinding delerium.

Love thy neighbor. Ha!
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 07:37 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
And, Zionism's primary cause was Christian anti-Semitism for two-thousand years. Europeans learned their lesson well from European Christianity, mostly Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. That is just a fact. 

Luther was rabidly antisemitic, more than any popes, many of whom protected Jews from persecutions. And the CC did hide and protect Jews during the holocaust, so you're being grossly unfair to Rome.

Quote:
if more people felt like me, there would be fewer intermarriages between Jews and Christians. That too is good, in my opinion. I actually like my gene pool.

I thought you wanted to marry a Gentile boy... Changed your mind?



Actually, Martin Luther first thought all Jews should convert to Protestantism. When they snubbed his offer, he reacted like a human and became an anti-Semite.

And, while the French nuns were running an underground railroad of sorts for Polish Jews, and saved a number (unknown), it still was the Catholic Church that taught European Christians to hate Christ killers.

I am heterosexual, but socially liberal for others.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 07:42 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Don't know really, guess I understood about foofie being sort of hateful, (actually I am kind of surprised at it)since you mentioned it, just responded to your post. I apologize if it offends you in some way.


I am not hateful. I just have the x-ray vision of Superman, and can discern false friendship and phoney civility. There are just so few nice people that I just go around with a less than friendly demeanor. Try living in NYC. Not only do the current demographics try hard to ignore each other, but if one knows NYC history from one's early 20th century family, it was worse under the demographics that left in the '60's (read: white flight).

I just don't like phoney sugar coating.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 04:07 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

...How about you taking a look at things with a bit more perspective, Foofie. Since Jews have not been able to get along with neighbors ANYWHERE...is it not possible they bear some of the responsibility for that inability?




Oh, you mean Jews, being a successful minority should not offend the sensitive level of self-esteem, of the lower echelon of Gentile society, by pandering to their collective ego? Yes, I guess in that case Jews are the problem, since they are the same stiff necked Hebrews that Yul Brynner in the Ten Commandments (as the Pharoh) referred to them. Yes, Jews cannot be insular, or the sensitive Gentile masses get offended. In that case, bring on the sensitive Gentile masses, so I can snub them into a teeth grinding delerium.

Love thy neighbor. Ha!
[/quote]

Okay...so you are saying that Jews bear no responsibility for being unable to get along with neighbors anywhere.

I see.

That may be part of the problem!
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 07:51 am
@Frank Apisa,
I think you shouldn't take foofie's words as an attitude of the Jewish people as a whole, despite how she seems to feel it is her right to be a representative so to speak for all Jews everywhere, at least that is the impression I am getting from these posts of hers.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 07:58 am
On the question of the topic, I don't know history, but, wasn't Jews in the area before there was a state of Israel and didn't they all get along pretty well with the Arabs and others who were also in the area. It seems to me, the whole problem was creating a state of Israel. The Jews of the Holocaust should have been treated as refugees like we do when there are other ethnic cleansings in other places. Or some other solution, not really smart enough to know, but surely there was another answer.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 08:16 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:
On the question of the topic, I don't know history, but, wasn't Jews in the area before there was a state of Israel

Yes.


revelette2 wrote:
and didn't they all get along pretty well with the Arabs and others who were also in the area.

No. Muslims believe in the extermination of non-Muslims. That tends to limit the possibility of peaceful coexistence.


revelette2 wrote:
It seems to me, the whole problem was creating a state of Israel.

No. The whole problem is the Muslims' desire to eliminate all non-Muslims.


revelette2 wrote:
The Jews of the Holocaust should have been treated as refugees like we do when there are other ethnic cleansings in other places. Or some other solution, not really smart enough to know, but surely there was another answer.

The Jews have the right to live in their own homeland.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 08:29 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

On the question of the topic, I don't know history, but, wasn't Jews in the area before there was a state of Israel and didn't they all get along pretty well with the Arabs and others who were also in the area. It seems to me, the whole problem was creating a state of Israel. The Jews of the Holocaust should have been treated as refugees like we do when there are other ethnic cleansings in other places. Or some other solution, not really smart enough to know, but surely there was another answer.


Absolutely the Arabs and Jews got along in that area relatively peacefully for centuries before the creation of the state of Israel.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 09:20 am
@Foofie,
Quote:
Actually, Martin Luther first thought all Jews should convert to Protestantism. When they snubbed his offer, he reacted like a human and became an anti-Semite. 


And who would blame him? Certainly not Foofie... He was only human. That's why he wrote that the Jews were "the devil's people", and advocated setting synagogues on fire, forbidding rabbis from preaching, seizing Jews' property and money, and smashing up their homes, so that these "envenomed worms" would be forced into labour or expelled "for all time". "We are at fault in not slaying them", he said, all to humanly...

Do you think Hitler was similarly misunderstood? He "reacted like a human" too, no?

Quote:
I am heterosexual, but socially liberal for others.

For some reason I thought you were female. Apologies. But you did express interest in goy romance at some point, no?
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 04:48 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Foofie wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

...How about you taking a look at things with a bit more perspective, Foofie. Since Jews have not been able to get along with neighbors ANYWHERE...is it not possible they bear some of the responsibility for that inability?




Oh, you mean Jews, being a successful minority should not offend the sensitive level of self-esteem, of the lower echelon of Gentile society, by pandering to their collective ego? Yes, I guess in that case Jews are the problem, since they are the same stiff necked Hebrews that Yul Brynner in the Ten Commandments (as the Pharoh) referred to them. Yes, Jews cannot be insular, or the sensitive Gentile masses get offended. In that case, bring on the sensitive Gentile masses, so I can snub them into a teeth grinding delerium.

Love thy neighbor. Ha!


Okay...so you are saying that Jews bear no responsibility for being unable to get along with neighbors anywhere.

I see.

That may be part of the problem!

[/quote]

No. I am trying to impart the thinking that Jews have every right to not be anyone's friendly neighbor. Civil neighbor, yes. Friendly neighbor, based on who the neighbor is. Notice how no one gets upset when they get snubbed by clannish WASP's, or other successful groups. But, when Jews don't pander to some neer-do-well Gentile, the Gentile might be thinking, "That Jew thinks he's better than me." No, the Jew might just be making the same decision that any other non-Jews might make. However, some Gentiles tend to think Jews are OBLIGATED to be fawning to every dummy that he/she meets. It's just not in the Jewish culture to want to be friendly to all Gentiles. Civil yes. Friendly no.

So, Frankie baby, you have made a good argument why Israel needs to exist, since if Israelis, as Jews, did not have a homeland, then it's just a matter of time when envious/hostile Gentiles will think a final solution is needed for those less than friendly Jews. In other words, the world either has to murder them, or let them live in peace in an insular manner.

And, by the way, the Jews in Moorish Spain were Sephardic. They were known to get along with Gentiles. Ashkenazim are known to avoid Gentiles of a lower socio-economic class. Really not a problem, unless one has a double standard for Jews.

And, being of Italian descent, should I feel friendly to you? Sorry, I find you just annoying in your inability to take responsibility for Catholic anti-Semitism for two-thousand years, and saying Jews need to become better at engratiating themselves to under-educated masses. If you do not condemn upper class Gentiles for being class conscious, it is only intractable anti-Semitism, in my opinion, that gives Jews a different set of criteria for living in peace.

Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 04:50 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

I think you shouldn't take foofie's words as an attitude of the Jewish people as a whole, despite how she seems to feel it is her right to be a representative so to speak for all Jews everywhere, at least that is the impression I am getting from these posts of hers.


I am not a representative of all Jews; however, I think I understand the dynamics of interfaith friction better than many, Jews or Gentiles. Strictly sociology, not my personal opinion.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 04:54 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

On the question of the topic, I don't know history, but, wasn't Jews in the area before there was a state of Israel and didn't they all get along pretty well with the Arabs and others who were also in the area. It seems to me, the whole problem was creating a state of Israel. The Jews of the Holocaust should have been treated as refugees like we do when there are other ethnic cleansings in other places. Or some other solution, not really smart enough to know, but surely there was another answer.


The other answer was bring them to a western country (aka, Christian country). Back in 1945, many an average person on the street still believed in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and that Jews wanted to take over the world, and Nazis were trying hard to clean up Europe from despised Jews.

Israel was a place to put them that would not upset any Gentile Christians, and perhaps the Arabs would finish the job that Nazis started. Get it?

Israel did not represent Christian love for Jews; more like how to get them out of Europe's hair, so to speak, in my opinion.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jul, 2014 04:57 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Do you think Hitler was similarly misunderstood? He "reacted like a human" too, no?



"Misunderstood" is not the meaningful question. The only question, in my opinion, is whether Jews need to live in their own homeland to avoid the very human emotion of envy and hate. Apparently, they are in their own homeland, and from the inception, hate was there. So, a modern military is a good antidote to hate directed at one's country.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sun 20 Jul, 2014 02:28 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Foofie wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

...How about you taking a look at things with a bit more perspective, Foofie. Since Jews have not been able to get along with neighbors ANYWHERE...is it not possible they bear some of the responsibility for that inability?




Oh, you mean Jews, being a successful minority should not offend the sensitive level of self-esteem, of the lower echelon of Gentile society, by pandering to their collective ego? Yes, I guess in that case Jews are the problem, since they are the same stiff necked Hebrews that Yul Brynner in the Ten Commandments (as the Pharoh) referred to them. Yes, Jews cannot be insular, or the sensitive Gentile masses get offended. In that case, bring on the sensitive Gentile masses, so I can snub them into a teeth grinding delerium.

Love thy neighbor. Ha!


Okay...so you are saying that Jews bear no responsibility for being unable to get along with neighbors anywhere.

I see.

That may be part of the problem!



No. I am trying to impart the thinking that Jews have every right to not be anyone's friendly neighbor. Civil neighbor, yes. Friendly neighbor, based on who the neighbor is. Notice how no one gets upset when they get snubbed by clannish WASP's, or other successful groups. But, when Jews don't pander to some neer-do-well Gentile, the Gentile might be thinking, "That Jew thinks he's better than me." No, the Jew might just be making the same decision that any other non-Jews might make. However, some Gentiles tend to think Jews are OBLIGATED to be fawning to every dummy that he/she meets. It's just not in the Jewish culture to want to be friendly to all Gentiles. Civil yes. Friendly no.

So, Frankie baby, you have made a good argument why Israel needs to exist, since if Israelis, as Jews, did not have a homeland, then it's just a matter of time when envious/hostile Gentiles will think a final solution is needed for those less than friendly Jews. In other words, the world either has to murder them, or let them live in peace in an insular manner.

And, by the way, the Jews in Moorish Spain were Sephardic. They were known to get along with Gentiles. Ashkenazim are known to avoid Gentiles of a lower socio-economic class. Really not a problem, unless one has a double standard for Jews.

And, being of Italian descent, should I feel friendly to you? Sorry, I find you just annoying in your inability to take responsibility for Catholic anti-Semitism for two-thousand years, and saying Jews need to become better at engratiating themselves to under-educated masses. If you do not condemn upper class Gentiles for being class conscious, it is only intractable anti-Semitism, in my opinion, that gives Jews a different set of criteria for living in peace.


[/quote]



Like I said earlier, Foofie, you make a better argument for what I have been trying to say than I do.

YOU, and your kind of thinking...are part of the problem for Jews.

In any case, the Arabs of that area have as much right to not want the state of Israel there...as the Jews have of wanting it there. If you think otherwise...fine. Think it. But in my opinion, the creation of the state of Israel in that area was one of the dumbest things humans have ever done. And I suspect there will never be anything resembling real peace so long as it exists there.

If you want to consider that Antisemitism...do so. But you are wrong in that if you do.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Sun 20 Jul, 2014 08:24 am
@Foofie,
Quote:
Misunderstood" is not the meaningful question. The only question, in my opinion, is whether Jews need to live in their own homeland to avoid the very human emotion of envy and hate. Apparently, they are in their own homeland, and from the inception, hate was there. So, a modern military is a good antidote to hate directed at one's country.

Your ancestors have been chased from that country twice already, by Nabuchodonosor and Hadrien.

Being a good neighbour is the smart thing to do, but apparently you guys aren't very smart.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jul, 2014 09:31 am
@Frank Apisa,
You have made your point, and re-made it. It doesn't matter whether your point is anti-Semitic or not. Anti-Semitism is just part of the culture. Sort of like anti-Catholicism was once part of the culture. However, under the surface, in my opinion, there is still anti-Catholicism. And, even when everyone goes to a Seder at his/her Jewish friend's home, there will still be anti-Semitism under the surface. My point is Jewish culture is just different enough to make many people uncomfortable with Jews, so Israel as a Christmas present of sorts to all the Orthodox Jews, as a small compensation for the murderous Nazis, and the non-caring European masses, is the best that could be done after WWII.

But, as an American Catholic you might have a different perspective. Now please end this silliness. I have my opinion, and you have yours.

P.S.: Perhaps, you should blame ancestors for kicking Jews out of Jerusalem two thousand years ago. Without that historical fact, Jews would never have left. No Ashkenazim. No Sephardim. No posts from Frank Apisa on a topic he has great insight into (sarcastically speaking, in my opinion).
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jul, 2014 09:34 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Being a good neighbour is the smart thing to do, but apparently you guys aren't very smart.


My circle of people I know that are Jewish is fairly small. I don't know if your point is correct. I myself am only a civil neighbor. The neighbors I have are not my cup of tea.

However, if you are smart, that is fortunate for you, and all who you know. Good luck in your brilliance.
 

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