11
   

George Galloway Full of Crap When He Says Jews have no right to be in Palestine

 
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 01:34 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:

Foofie wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

And they have managed to live there in relative peace with each other for a couple thousand years...

...until the creation of the state of Israel.



Exactly! So, having Jews autonomous is just too much cognitive dissonance for most Gentiles. Jews, like Christians, were second class citizens in Muslim l2ands. Jews were the property of the prince or king in Christian Europe. How can Jews have the desire to decide their own destiny? What are they Gentiles?


Or, maybe the fact that they suddenly had the power....and it all went slightly to their heads?

Tell me, Foof. Do you think that they have treated the Palestinians fairly, on balance?


On balance? Since half of Jewish Israelis are of middle eastern origin (Sephardic), where ancestors were second class citizens, like Christians, in Muslim countries, on balance I do not think "fairness" is the appropriate question. I think the more appropriate question is whether the Israelis maintained their morality, and did not adopt a solution like "transportation," like Dickens' England.

It is really humorous when so many countries have histories that include enslaving, exploiting less advanced peoples, but Israel is supposed to be the kindly kindergarten teacher to the obstreperous Arabs, be they Palestinians, or other assorted neighbors.

Perhaps, "fairness" would be a more appropriate question, if Scotland was not part of Britain today, and an independent country?
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 01:45 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Foofie, my point was that Jews and Arabs lived in relative harmony and peace in that area for thousands of years...and that the harmony and peace is now gone and the two sides are trying to destroy one another.

That all began with the beginning of the Zionist movement...and came into full being with the creation of the state of Israel.

That cannot really be argued...it is fact.

So...the creation of the state of Israel has to be considered the reason for the problems there.



You are not going to the primary cause of Zionism. That being European anti-Semitism, whether it was Catholic Europe, or Orthodox Christianity in Russia. So, you neatly avoid any Christian culpability to the root cause of Zionism.

If Jews felt they could live amongst Christians in peace, without pogroms, Final Solutions, etc., there would have been no Zionism.

Take responsibility for the Jew hatred for two thousand years. In my opinion, you Gentiles were a nicer lot as pagans. Then Jews were just odd fellows for believing in one God. Once you guys adopted the one God paradigm, Jews became Christ killers. Note that Jews are not Christ killers in Muslim theology. That might say something about the mindset of those that developed feudal Europe?

Israel was just the outcome of Jew hatred by all those loving Christians that Jews lived amongst for two-thousand years. Be a good fire warden, and discern the primary cause of the fire.
Lordyaswas
 
  5  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 02:27 pm
@Foofie,
Do you ever answer a question without trying to point score?

I was actually trying to get another point of view.

If you want me to return your serve, I could say that Israelis prefer the 21st Century ghettoing of people, rather than our (19th Century) transportation.


0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 03:14 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Foofie, my point was that Jews and Arabs lived in relative harmony and peace in that area for thousands of years...and that the harmony and peace is now gone and the two sides are trying to destroy one another.

That all began with the beginning of the Zionist movement...and came into full being with the creation of the state of Israel.

That cannot really be argued...it is fact.

So...the creation of the state of Israel has to be considered the reason for the problems there.



You are not going to the primary cause of Zionism. That being European anti-Semitism, whether it was Catholic Europe, or Orthodox Christianity in Russia. So, you neatly avoid any Christian culpability to the root cause of Zionism.


Culpability???

Is that the word you want to use for Zionism?


Quote:
If Jews felt they could live amongst Christians in peace, without pogroms, Final Solutions, etc., there would have been no Zionism.


If Jews could live with anybody in peace...there would be no reason for Zionism. What makes you so sure the fault of the "no peace" is that of the people who are not living in peace with the Jews. Perhaps it is that Jews cannot live in peace with anyone.




Quote:
Take responsibility for the Jew hatred for two thousand years. In my opinion, you Gentiles were a nicer lot as pagans. Then Jews were just odd fellows for believing in one God. Once you guys adopted the one God paradigm, Jews became Christ killers. Note that Jews are not Christ killers in Muslim theology. That might say something about the mindset of those that developed feudal Europe?


There was plenty wrong with the Christian attitude toward, and treatment of , Jews. I have never suggested otherwise. But other than the Palestine and in Moorish Spain...the Jews have never gotten along with anyone.

Now...it may always be the other guy's fault.

But the Arabs of the Palestine suddenly had the world impose the presence of a Jewish state...the state of Israel...and had nothing to say about it.

Do you honestly blame them for wanting to see it gone?

Why do you suppose there is something wrong with them wanting it to be gone?


Quote:
Israel was just the outcome of Jew hatred by all those loving Christians that Jews lived amongst for two-thousand years. Be a good fire warden, and discern the primary cause of the fire.


How about you taking a look at things with a bit more perspective, Foofie. Since Jews have not been able to get along with neighbors ANYWHERE...is it not possible they bear some of the responsibility for that inability?
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 03:36 pm
I don't understand why any of you waste your time talking to that hateful bitch Miller/Foofie.
Olivier5
 
  4  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 04:09 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Quote:
Or, maybe the fact that they suddenly had the power....and it all went slightly to their heads?

The reason Einstein was worried about the creation of Israel was precisely this. E.g. a people accustomed to live as a minority for thousands of years now has to learn how to deal with its own minorities. And they are not particularly fast learners either.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 11:06 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:
Do you think that they have treated the Palestinians fairly, on balance?

Israel has repeatedly offered the Palestinians an independent state based on 1967 borders.

Sounds fair to me.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  4  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 06:13 am
@Foofie,
Quote:
Be a good fire warden, and discern the primary cause of the fire.

A good fire warden puts out the fire, rather than try to find excuses for it.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 09:21 am
@Setanta,
I had no idea any of this hatred existed between Christians and Jews except for extreme cases of those skin heads (whatever they call themselves now) towards Jews and Blacks and anything else not white. I am somewhat surprised and hope it is not as common as it seems on this thread. I mean, just listen to people in congress, I don't hear of a lot of Christians who hate Jews and think of them as Christ killers. In fact most of them and many conservative Christians believe the reason we exist as a nation is to protect Israel for the second coming and the rapture and all that stuff.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 10:24 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

...How about you taking a look at things with a bit more perspective, Foofie. Since Jews have not been able to get along with neighbors ANYWHERE...is it not possible they bear some of the responsibility for that inability?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 10:38 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

...How about you taking a look at things with a bit more perspective, Foofie. Since Jews have not been able to get along with neighbors ANYWHERE...is it not possible they bear some of the responsibility for that inability?


The point you seem to have discerned is that Jews would prefer to live sort of in an insular ethnocentric mode, since historically, Christians liked Jews as potential converts to Christianity. Plus, let's not forget that only in modern times are most Christians literate. So, you are claiming Jews should have pandered to illiterate, under educated Christians, so the Christian self-esteem wouldn't engender antipathy.

You are defining "able to get along" with the Christian motto of love thy neighbor, in my opinion. Unfortunately, my neighbor has proclivities that I find alien to my culture, like drinking, tatoos, macho behavior, and anti-intellectualism. In other words, you have put the onus on Jews to be more like low class Christians (since upper class Christians have been able to insulate themselves from the social pariah - Jew).

Do some research and you'll see that Jews are just achievers in the modern society, like Asians, Indians (from India), Cubans, Nigerians. But, you want them to rub elbows with all the under educated blue collars? You are being silly, in my opinion.

And, by the way, upper class Catholics and Protestants only get along with upper class folks of their social class. You might have a double standard, in my opinion?

And, let's not forget that Christians often believe that Jews have a superiority complex. That alone is cause for avoidance. I do not have a superiority complex, when I meet superior people. Unfortunately, I meet many people of a lesser mentality, and I just try to avoid interacting with them. That must really annoy them. But, my synapses ache after talking to under educated folk. Have some Christian pity on my poor superior synapses.

Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 10:40 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

...How about you taking a look at things with a bit more perspective, Foofie. Since Jews have not been able to get along with neighbors ANYWHERE...is it not possible they bear some of the responsibility for that inability?


The point you seem to have discerned is that Jews would prefer to live sort of in an insular ethnocentric mode, since historically, Christians liked Jews as potential converts to Christianity. Plus, let's not forget that only in modern times are most Christians literate. So, you are claiming Jews should have pandered to illiterate, under educated Christians, so the Christian self-esteem wouldn't engender antipathy.

You are defining "able to get along" with the Christian motto of love thy neighbor, in my opinion. Unfortunately, my neighbor has proclivities that I find alien to my culture, like drinking, tatoos, macho behavior, and anti-intellectualism. In other words, you have put the onus on Jews to be more like low class Christians (since upper class Christians have been able to insulate themselves from the social pariah - Jew).

Do some research and you'll see that Jews are just achievers in the modern society, like Asians, Indians (from India), Cubans, Nigerians. But, you want them to rub elbows with all the under educated blue collars? You are being silly, in my opinion.

And, by the way, upper class Catholics and Protestants only get along with upper class folks of their social class. You might have a double standard, in my opinion?

And, let's not forget that Christians often believe that Jews have a superiority complex. That alone is cause for avoidance. I do not have a superiority complex, when I meet superior people. Unfortunately, I meet many people of a lesser mentality, and I just try to avoid interacting with them. That must really annoy them. But, my synapses ache after talking to under educated folk. Have some Christian pity on my poor superior synapses!

0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 10:50 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
Be a good fire warden, and discern the primary cause of the fire.

A good fire warden puts out the fire, rather than try to find excuses for it.


Not an excuse, but a primary cause. And, Zionism's primary cause was Christian anti-Semitism for two-thousand years. Europeans learned their lesson well from European Christianity, mostly Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. That is just a fact. Today's lapsed Christian still finds Jews, secular or Orthodox, too different in subtle ways oftentimes, to feel anything but discomfort in a Jewish milieu. Actually, in my opinion, Christians might just often feel that Jews are likely not going to be truly friendly, since the Final Solution was really so accepted by Europeans and even Americans. So, why should anyone feel comfortable socially with Jews. However, not being of a social nature, I find this fine. In fact, if more people felt like me, there would be fewer intermarriages between Jews and Christians. That too is good, in my opinion. I actually like my gene pool.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 10:53 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

I had no idea any of this hatred existed between Christians and Jews except for extreme cases of those skin heads (whatever they call themselves now) towards Jews and Blacks and anything else not white. I am somewhat surprised and hope it is not as common as it seems on this thread. I mean, just listen to people in congress, I don't hear of a lot of Christians who hate Jews and think of them as Christ killers. In fact most of them and many conservative Christians believe the reason we exist as a nation is to protect Israel for the second coming and the rapture and all that stuff.


Not between women so much, in my opinion. However, men live in a world where male preferences are badges of one's identity. So, the fact that Jews succeed in academia, or business, can be an affront to Gentile males, wanting to believe that the world is their oyster.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 11:52 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

...How about you taking a look at things with a bit more perspective, Foofie. Since Jews have not been able to get along with neighbors ANYWHERE...is it not possible they bear some of the responsibility for that inability?


The point you seem to have discerned is that Jews would prefer to live sort of in an insular ethnocentric mode, since historically, Christians liked Jews as potential converts to Christianity. Plus, let's not forget that only in modern times are most Christians literate. So, you are claiming Jews should have pandered to illiterate, under educated Christians, so the Christian self-esteem wouldn't engender antipathy.

You are defining "able to get along" with the Christian motto of love thy neighbor, in my opinion. Unfortunately, my neighbor has proclivities that I find alien to my culture, like drinking, tatoos, macho behavior, and anti-intellectualism. In other words, you have put the onus on Jews to be more like low class Christians (since upper class Christians have been able to insulate themselves from the social pariah - Jew).

Do some research and you'll see that Jews are just achievers in the modern society, like Asians, Indians (from India), Cubans, Nigerians. But, you want them to rub elbows with all the under educated blue collars? You are being silly, in my opinion.

And, by the way, upper class Catholics and Protestants only get along with upper class folks of their social class. You might have a double standard, in my opinion?

And, let's not forget that Christians often believe that Jews have a superiority complex.


How on Earth could anyone get that idea? (Said sarcastically.)

(Hint: Check everything you have said up until that sentence. And next, spend some time exploring the Jewish notion that the Jews are the "chosen people" of the god that made the Earth, the Sun, the galaxy in which the sun exists...and all the other galaxies we know about.)


Quote:


That alone is cause for avoidance. I do not have a superiority complex, when I meet superior people. Unfortunately, I meet many people of a lesser mentality, and I just try to avoid interacting with them. That must really annoy them. But, my synapses ache after talking to under educated folk. Have some Christian pity on my poor superior synapses.


My point is that Jews may be a part of the problem Jews experience...perhaps even the most significant part of the problem.

I did not think you would go out of your way to show how likely that possibility is.

But I thank you for doing so.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 12:55 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
How on Earth could anyone get that idea? (Said sarcastically.)
Smile
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 01:00 pm
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

Quote:
How on Earth could anyone get that idea? (Said sarcastically.)
Smile


I like Foofie...and he often makes lots of sense.

But that entire post was hilarious. He essentially bolstered all the things I had mentioned as possibilities...and did it in the name of rebutting them.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 01:20 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
And, Zionism's primary cause was Christian anti-Semitism for two-thousand years. Europeans learned their lesson well from European Christianity, mostly Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. That is just a fact. 

Luther was rabidly antisemitic, more than any popes, many of whom protected Jews from persecutions. And the CC did hide and protect Jews during the holocaust, so you're being grossly unfair to Rome.

Quote:
if more people felt like me, there would be fewer intermarriages between Jews and Christians. That too is good, in my opinion. I actually like my gene pool.

I thought you wanted to marry a Gentile boy... Changed your mind?
RABEL222
 
  0  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 02:29 pm
@revelette2,
Abject stupidity! Christians and Jews think that they will force Christ, if their is really a Christ, to do as they want him too by their actions. They don't realize that if their is a second coming a good number of so called christians will go to hell, if their is a hell, because of their unchristian attitude. I dont recall Christ declaring Palistine a Jewish state.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jul, 2014 03:17 pm
@revelette2,
Why the hell are you saying this to me?
 

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