Israel's Shame

This is a bit late for the US when they continue to support Israel through all of their killing of innocent Palestinians for over several decades. No excuse.

Isn't 94,000 Palestinians killed vs 24,000 Israelis already enough proof that Israel kills proportionately more innocent Palestinian people?

That's a propaganda bit to fool sheeple into thinking they care.

I find your vehemence concerning Zionists and your repeated reference to "the Jews" troubling, however I suspect you may be employing the later just to elicit charges of anti-Semitism.

I can imagine an objection to a Jewish State based on an aversion to theocracies, however, as you know, Israel is not a theocratic state and I don't recall your ever expressing a similar vehement objection to any of the numerous Muslim States.

I can also imagine that someone who regards democracy with an almost religious fervor divorcing all other factors from consideration and finding that Israel is skirting a purists implementation of the concept, but such a person, it seems to me, would find a lot more reason to criticize a lot of other nations, rather than simply Israel. Perhaps you have, but I don't recall you criticizing the Palestinian leadership for their un-democratic ways.

And I can imagine someone criticizing Israel for lobbying members of our congress, although I would expect greater criticism be directed at the members of congress who are influenced by these efforts, and (once again) a consistency of criticism of any nation that lobbies our government.

(It seems on the issue of lobbying the left in the US tends to find it sinister and corrupting only when it is done by entities with which they have some fundamental problem i.e. corporations and Israel. Other groups like Unions and Environmentalist Activists are somehow perceived to only be seeking to educate.)

Finally, you are far too intelligent and well-informed to not realize the inevitable outcome of Israel granting the Right of Return to the Palestinians, as well as the primary reason for making it so inviolate a demand, so I'm afraid I must assume you look favorably on that outcome.

It's an impossible hypothetical, but if there was some way for the Right of Return to be granted and for Israel to remain a Jewish State, what would be your reaction?

I really don't believe that all critics of Israel are anti-Semites, not even all of the rabid ones that greatly exaggerate Israel's errors and misdeeds, while greatly minimizing and excusing those of the Palestinians. I suspect that you will acknowledge that at least some segment of Israel's critics are motivated by bigotry though, and that they enjoy the ability to join others in slamming Jews, and getting to feel morally superior while doing so.

But I can't read your mind, only your comments and, as I wrote, I remain uncertain at to your motivation.

Not that you should care.

Funny, Finn, I don't recall you criticizing the USA for its incredibly undemocratic ways in Vietnam, chile, Venezuela, Cuba, Korea, the Philippines, Brazil, Ecuador, El Salvador, Haiti, Nicaragua, Panama, Iran, Egypt and many other countries where the USA has brutalized the population with USA installed brutal dictators.

How come the grand hypocrisy?

No the only proof of anything even if the numbers are correct is that it is very very costly to attack and try to murder Israel citizens and you tend to get the short end of the stick in doing so.

A man in defending his family from a mob is under not duty to keep the number of deaths in the mob to the same ratio as the number of family members killed.

In other word it would be very costly now to try to get another holocaust going as those damn Jews had the means and the will to make any such mass murders of them very costly indeed.

The most important thing about the Holocaust is trying to ensure it never happens again. Since the end of WW2 we've had 3 major genocides, Cambodia, Bosnia and Rwanda, none of which have involved Jews. The chances of a fourth one involving Jews are so remote as to be almost impossible. Israel is the military superpower in the ME, backed up by the one global superpower, with good relations with the major economic bloc that is the EU.

Finn likes to tut tut sanctimoniously about some of the language being used by those who are understandably upset by the carnage going on right now. He looks the other way when BillRM justifies genocide and goes off on one of his baby killing rants. He refuses to acknowledge the daily horror of Hebron, and is more upset about the peaceful disruption of a concert than the murder of 70+ children by the IDF.

He's in no position to lecture anyone.

One difference between this Gaza conflict and previous ones is the use of social media. This video of an unarmed Palestinian man looking for injured family members, then being deliberately murdered by Israeli snipers, nails the lie that Israel is only going after militants, and that Hamas is responsible for civilian casualties.



It's very upsetting to watch, but is already being touted as the video that defines the conflict.

What we are witnessing is the wholesale slaughter of Palestinians by the Israelis, a hybrid consequence of Hitler's mass kill of European Jews. The survivors, led by seemingly crazed Israeli leaders intent on "never again" are creating a world in which only the Jewish people are worth being saved. The Israeli leaders are killing as many Palestinians as they feel like killing, with no remorse. This began with the burning ALIVE of one Palestinian, while another barely escaped with his life. That same level of inhuman cruelty permeates the IDF who on numerous occasions have stolen Palestinian money, burned their books, while killing them indiscriminately.

The other day, Secy of State, John Kerry was overheard making a hot-mike comment: "hell of a pinpoint operation." This allows us a glimpse into the US double-speak as a result of obscene American domestic politics. Senator Lindsay Graham (SC) in the wake of 500 Palestinians killed, said: "Israel should stay as long as she needs to, in other words, kill as many Palestinians as Israel feels the need to and the United States of America will use her veto at the UN to protect the Zionist nation.

(French Amb. To UK Blasts Israel As 'Threat To World Peace' - Report. The French Ambassador attending a party in the UK referred to Israel as "that shitty little country.") I must admit Israel is a threat to world peace.

Why is it I am beginning to despise certain demonic aspects of my government. The average American doesn't spend their quality time thinking about Israel with the Holocaust happening over 60 years ago, two generations later. But Israel keeps the Holocaust alive as if it happened yesterday in the minds of many unlearned Americans, especially the religious susceptible who believe there is something blessed and godlike with respect to the Jews. There is indeed something quite special about Israel's politics. They have managed to capture the US congress, controlling them like the puppet master who pulls the puppet strings. Yesterday, President Obama kept putting first "Israel has a right to defend itself." No one doubts that, however, the greater tragedy is the NOW rising toll of an innocent people, without an army, who tries to hide in a hospital and Israel shells it with them on it, and that bastard, Netanyahu, goes on TV repeating the monstrous lie stating Hamas is using the hospital as a tool! WHERE ELSE ARE THE WOUNDED AND NEAR DEAD TO GO , HUH?! At last check (have not check this morning) there were over 500 Palestinians murdered and thousands injured!

Israel is a killer government growing in stature with the acquiescence of the US.

Amazing nonsense as all that is needed to end the killing of the poor Palestinians is ending of the attempts to kill Jews by over a thousand rockets to date being fire into Israel.

If the Palestinians wish the check points ended and the harbor and the border reopen all they would need to do is stop trying to do mass killings by way of bombings.

Next if the US was under similar attacks by Mexicans somehow I would think that Kerry would be singing another tune.

Your repeating ignorant claims only proves how much of an idiot you are!

I'm sure if your property was stolen by the Jews, and your freedoms taken away, your schools and hospitals bombed, you would just stand by and do nothing!

Really dumb and dumber. No hope of revival.

Kinda like MyLai, right, MiT? Or the hundreds of other everyday USA slaughters.

Wakee wakee, sheeple!

It's not only our government, it's also the people who are ignorant of the facts.

As I've stated on another thread, I will never again vote in another national election, because it's hopeless, a waste of my time, and nothing is going to change.

I only fear for our children who will follow in this messed up country that has no sense of right and wrong.

Hamas must be stupid, they've fired hundreds of rockets into Israel and done hardly any damage at all..

Great news as the smaller voice such people as you have in this society the better off we all will be.

Israel must be stupid, they say they've invaded to destroy the tunnels, but Hamas will simply build new ones when the Israelis have gone home!

This only repeats history; nothing else changes except the dead count increases.

How much longer will this go on?

While the killing on both side is a tragedy, I believe that those that are vehemently pro-Palestinian, can remember when in the recent past, Israel released/exchanged 1000 Palestinians for one Israeli soldier, and they were overjoyed over the number of freed Palestinians. However, it seems that now that ratio is coming to haunt them, since for the far fewer Israeli civilians that have died in this hostility it is far surpassed by the number of Palestinians.

In other words, if Israel really considers one civilian of their own worth 1,000 of the enemy civilians, it might be stupid on the side of Palestinians to keep up the hostility? I believe that this reflects an impasse that I have not heard anyone mention. Meaning Israel's reaction is tantamount, in a metaphorical way, to a swarm of bees attacking anyone that disturbs the beehive. Perhaps, Palestinians and the western powers need to question whether Israel's valuing their population more than Palestinians might value their population is the nut of the impasse; not the land?

The Koran says muslims MUST attack Jews-
[Koran 5.82] "Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity to be the Jews.."
[Koran 9.123] "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard against evil"
[Koran 17.33] "And do not kill any one whom Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause, and whoever is slain unjustly"

Muslims feel they have a "just cause" because of the Israeli occupation of Palestine, so maybe if they handed it back to the Palestinians, muslims might feel they no longer have a "just cause" to keep attacking Israel.
So maybe Israel should get out of Palestine NOW before muslims get their hands on nukes, which is when it'll REALLY hit the fan..

So, just because something is written in a book, all Muslims are out to kill Jews?
There are over 2 billion Muslims in the world. How many are out to kill Jews?

Get your head out of our ass! That would be a good start.

I don't think you'll find a single muslim anywhere in the world who thinks the Israeli occupation of Palestine is okay..
And even though they might not be involved in the fighting themselves, they have regular whiprounds to send cash to Hamas and other groups.
Heck, half the mosques in Britain alone are terrorist-recruiting centres and there's a constant stream of young Brit muslims volunteering to go fight in the mideast!