@Pantalones,
Excuse me since I am not proficient in the quote feature so I'll post your pertinent responses in
bold.
"First of all, a transgender man is a person that was born with a female body and identifies as a man and vice versa for trans women. What is a woman to you if you can't include trans women in that definition? It is discriminatory if you treat a trans woman differently from all other cisgender "
Using the Wikipedia link you provided:
"Prominent gay activist John Aravosis considers the term "a slur against non-trans people."[26]
Other people oppose the use of "cisgender" on the basis that introducing more labels diverts attention from the real issues trans people face.[27]
Christine Sisto in the National Review asked "
Why is the transgender community creating words for what I should call myself? So that the trans community will feel better about themselves? " She quoted a blogger who had written "Do not call me cisgender. That is offensive to me. I am offended that you consider that you have power over me, and can name me."[28]
I agree with the opposition of such labels as cisgender and the like, are creating more complex (and confusing) labels. With regards to defining what a woman is I think it a lot of gender/sex categories largely depends on the sociological environment one lives in. As a man, I'm not going to put labels of what "womanhood" is, rather, I'm merely stating my opinion based on my experiences of what a woman is to me (notice I said woman, not womanhood). Earlier I stated that a person who is transgender and makes the transition from their assigned sex, to their gender I will treat them no differently than anyone, if you read my earlier responses I made that clear, but on matters of being romantically involved I've made the choice to not be romantically involved with someone who is transgender based on my experiences being with a "biological woman."
Now I realize the term "biological woman" may be controversial due to the fact that many people who are transgender feel they are biologically their gender they are/feel, but I'm trying to make a less pejorative distinction between my perception of what a woman is to me versus someone who believes they are a woman just assigned the wrong sex.
"Preference is ok, flat out ruling out someone because of their medical history is discriminatory."
Which I've made clear that I would accept fully and completely one's transition because that is their body and their choice, I just choose to not be romantically involved with someone who is transgender.
"If you prefer tall women that is fine, but someone saying they would never date anyone shorter than 5'9 then that is discrimination."
Women do this all the time. I'm 6'0 230 muscular, and to some I may have a very nice shape and physique but to a lot of women would reject me and say I'm short for my height. In my experience, a lot of women have this
"damsel in distress" mentality that one's height equates to strength and protection so a lot of men even men my height get rejected by women who prefer tall men. I used to think this is discriminatory but in actuality I've accepted this as a preference due to their mental complex conditioning. To regurgitate what I've said previously, I prefer to not romantically involve myself with someone who is transgender, however on a platonic level I have no qualms befriending someone who is. But yes, women do/have rejected men for not being a specific height.
"Trans women are not exempt from the socialization and experiences you've had with women. It is one thing to choose not to be with a woman because she can't birth your children and another because she is a trans woman."
I understand that transwomen/men are socialized and conditioned with the same experiences as me such as being bi-sexual, lesbian, gay etc however when I'm talking about socialization I'm referring to the patriarchal concept of men being with women (biological women). This is the culture I've been socialized in. Although I can accept a transwoman as a woman per say, however mentally, if I'm aware of they are transgender then despite my acceptance of their transformation, I simply do not prefer to be romantically involved with someone who has transformed from their assigned sex to another. To illustrate this, just as if Kobe Bryant left the Los Angeles Lakers to play for the Boston Celtics, although I like Kobe I cannot continue to support him on another team because I do not prefer to be a fan of the Celtics as I'm a fan of the Lakers.
"There are no obvious differences in behavior between trans women and cis women. The spectrum of character and personality is the same regardless of what sex they were assigned at birth."
Did you notice in the comment I made that you quoted I said:
"I just think based on my experiences with women I've dated compared to transsexuals I've there are (to me), obvious differences in behavio that I find appealing and not appealing."
Please forgive my misspellings and typos but what I meant to say was that in my experiences dealing with the women I have dated and the transsexuals, gays, and lesbians I've encountered, I do see distinct differences in behaviors. I used to work in Long Beach which has a large LGBT community outside of San Francisco (along with North Hollywood), so I've come into contact with quite a few. But it sounds like you're denying my experiences, are you?
"You had previously stated that as a the reason why you wouldn't be with a trans woman, it is discriminatory to be willing to sacrifice this for a cis woman but not for a trans woman."
I was actually responding to someone who made a non-sequitor question. Point blank period, my preferences and sacrifices are purely allocated to the women I PREFER.
"No one is obligated to tell other people anything their medical history, especially in the first date. It could even be a matter of personal safety, it might be dangerous to disclose this information to certain people. If it is right or wrong is another issue, but there should be no obligation."
I disagree. We still live in a society that fails to make distinctions between homosexuality and transsexuality. So for a lot of men, a man born as a man that transitions to a woman may face scrutiny for not disclosing that fact because a lot of men believe that by being with a transwoman they are in fact engaging in homosexuality. I believe if I disclose my heterosexuality through the specifics of my experiences with "women," and if the conversation is heading in positive direction, i believe it is important to at least disclose some information so the person can determine whether they want to continue the relationship.
As far as disclosing medical history on the first date is concerned, there is fine line of do's and don'ts. If two people are hot for each other on the first date (as one night stands happen) and if one person has herpes, HIV or Syphilis then there is indeed an obligation medically to inform the other person that they have such STI's. I'm not saying this is the same as being transgender, but I believe that in the environment that we live in, and as previously mentioned, often times men may believe being with a transwoman is the same as being homosexual and that may be an icebreaker. I know for me, it would. If I make it clear especially on the first date what I look for in a woman I would assume that would be a clear indication of my preference.
"What if it was a trans woman 10 years older than you with two adult children?"
If we're speaking of the same woman I'm seeing now and she told me she was a transwoman, I would not deal with her anymore. The clear reason would be deception because as the personal things we've shared thus far, I would think that, that pertinent information would be disclosed to me. Our society clearly has not accepted the LGBT community fully, and despite progressive actions, I think people ought to proceed with caution and not assume that everyone is going to be as accepting. We don't live in that kind of world where gender is a blurred line.
