An interesting discussion on transgendered men/women

You are reading an awful lot into the original post.

Just speaking for myself, the most obvious is not their appearance.

I understand that Chai, but I'm trying to find out what experience Buttermilk has that leads him to make that determination.

I can tell you it's not because he can tell someone is transgender by looking at them, so there has to be something else.

How does he know he prefers a biological woman? does this mean he'd prefer a biological woman who identifies as a man to a biological man who identifies as a woman?

Buttermilk, let's say you really liked women with blonde hair.

You meet someone like that, but while having a conversation with her, you realize she has dark roots.

Would you not pursue them as a date or more because they are not really a blonde?

in 95% of the cases I know, the appearance won't tell you anything other than you are meeting a woman

Gotcha ehBeth.

we are not defective if we dont try everything before we claim to know what we like/want. Life is short, and we dont live it for other we live it for ourselves. If Buttermilk does not want to date a sexually confused person, or a black person, or a Korean, or a redhead for what ever reason or none at at it is not your place to say anything about his choice. You live your life, he lives his...this is how it works.

The term "inherently discriminatory" seems judgmental to me. Again, if Buttermilk does not have a moral obligation to date this hypothetical person, meaning that he is free to politely decline her advance... than I don't see any issue.

Again, it seems that moral obligation is the point of this thread (which hinges around the word "discriminatory"). If there is no question of moral implication, than there really isn't much to disagree with.

Ok then if my preference to date biological women is discriminatory then if someone who dates on female athletes then their preference is discriminatory against females who are out of shape. Or if a man dates only black women or white women or asian women they're racially prejudiced against all other cultures. Or if a man only dates nurses as oppsed to a housekeeper or doctor, then he is discriminatory against all other women of various professions.

These arbitrary reasons are hardly discriminatory, and I tend to think our preferences are due to a few factors: socialization, proximity, experiences etc...If I as a straight male have been partly socialized to desire biological females since birth how are my preferences now as an adult, in continuance to desire biological females, discriminatory, if both my socialization and personal experience collectively influence my preferences?

Just as if someone only dates asian women under the pretense of the overwhelmingly positive experiences they had with asian women, I would hardly consider their preference racially discriminatory, rather its a limited choice of mate selection.

(See my post to Max for better clarification)

I think people who only date people of the same faith are merely socialized and condition to do so under the pretense that, if a believer romantically involves him or herself with a non-believer, that non-believer may endanger the believer's faith.

I haven't dated a trans-woman and as I said, because of my socialization and experiences with biological women, I've made that determination. An obvious factor is I want to have naturally born kid(s), I cannot have that with a trans-woman.

No one has an obligation to date anybody, obviously. You may have taken that as the Buttermilk's main point, and it may have been, but I take the underlying point, his firm conviction that a transgendered woman is basically still a man to be the underlying key complaint, and a weak one.


Adds that discriminating re who you choose to be with is a key human trait. That is not what I'm interested in here, though I get the side argument of 'how can you tell' re transgendered women.

Well my ideas of "maleness" are fluid, and I'm sure the experiences of transsexuals are/were difficult, but that difficulty is not what defines their sex, it reflects societal conditioning and the struggle to continually redefine gender.

After further clarification, the question is whether if a transwoman asked me out on a date would I accept? Now the perception of whether I find her attractive or not was not implied but let's assume for sake of argument I did, and I found out that it was a transwoman, I would say romantically I wouldn't. But on a friendship level I would have no problem. My biggest issue is I want kids. Yes even though there are biological females who can't conceive, I just think based on my experiences with women I've dated compared to transsexuals I've there are (to me), obvious differences in behavio that I find appealing and not appealing.

Her liberal feminist beliefs has nothing to do with it, as I was mentioning her philosophical ideals in conjunction with the setting of the discussion just as I too, mention her proactivity in the LGBT community. As opposed to me beginning my statement as "well a friend of mine asked......"

I would still pursue the person regardless of hair color but that is different than someone who transitioned to their desired gender, and me with my experiences with biological females and my willingness to date someone who is other than biologically female. My friend believes transgendered men/women are biologically men/women (Or to clarify a transgendered man is really a born female even though the sex organs do not match) and I just disagree with that line of reasoning.

Slightly off subject B-milk, but would you become involved with a woman if she said she couldn't have children?
What about if you found out after you fell in love that she couldn't?

I'm just curious, since I never wanted kids, and if I found out a man wanted them, and wouldn't be happy without them, I'd have to end it for both our sakes.

We judge others' ideas all the time without passing judgement on the person. Challenging an idea is just part of debate and I supposed finding the idea lacking could be considered judgmental but it sounds like the OP was invited to engage in a discussion, not ridiculed.

Buttermilk, please note that discrimination
is the act of making a selection, probably after analyzing
the available choices, to get the best result. A tailor once sought
to praise me, to flatter me, in my preference of fabric for some suits,
by saying that I was "a man of discrimination"; that meant a man of good taste.

If u order from a menu in a restaurant, u r committing an act
of discrimination, unless u order EVERYTHING on the menu.
If u r accepted to 5 colleges, by choosing the one wherein
u will matriculate, u discriminate by not attending all 5 of them.
When I use fonetic spelling, I discriminate against the extant paradime by avoiding use
of non-fonetically spelled words. No one can get thru the day without discriminating.
Your gender-based choices r an example of that fact.
Tell us how u define your terms, Buttermilk.

From Dictionary.com

discriminating  

1. differentiating; analytical.

2. noting differences or distinctions with nicety; discerning; perspicacious:
a discriminating interpreter of events.

3. having excellent taste or judgment: a discriminating interior designer.

4. differential, as a tariff.

5. possessing distinctive features; capable of being differentiated; discriminative.

Well I'm currently dealing with an older woman with 2 grown kids and she has expressed desire to not have any more (She is 42, I'm 32). Although I'm childless, for a woman I love and adore I would be willing to sacrifice my wants to be with her. In this particular situation it looks like its heading there so most likely I may sacrifice those desires for her.