4
   

Evolving gender roles in our societies

 
 
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 12:37 pm
I'd like to discus how feminism has impacted our societies, whether and how gender roles are evolving, the pros and cons of it, perhaps some of the confusion that's generated in the process, and how you galls and guys think we should raise our kids, girls and boys, to make them more (or less) "gender neutral".
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 12:38 pm
@Olivier5,
And just to get the ball rolling:

A Link Between Fidgety Boys and a Sputtering Economy
April 29, 2014

The behavior gap between rich and poor children, starting at very early ages, is now a well-known piece of social science. Entering kindergarten, high-income children not only know more words and can read better than poorer children but they also have longer attention spans, better-controlled tempers and more sensitivity to other children.

All of which makes the comparisons between boys and girls in the same categories fairly striking: The gap in behavioral skills between young girls and boys is even bigger than the gap between rich and poor.

By kindergarten, girls are substantially more attentive, better behaved, more sensitive, more persistent, more flexible and more independent than boys, according to a new paper from Third Way, a Washington research group. The gap grows over the course of elementary school and feeds into academic gaps between the sexes. By eighth grade, 48 percent of girls receive a mix of A’s and B’s or better. Only 31 percent of boys do.

By kindergarten, boys already fare much worse on social and behavioral measures than girls. The gender gap is even larger than the class gap and some racial gaps.

And in an economy that rewards knowledge, the academic struggles of boys turn into economic struggles. Men’s wages are stagnating. Men are much more likely to be idle — neither working, looking for work nor caring for family — than they once were and much more likely to be idle than women.

We reported last week that the United States had lost its once-enormous global lead in middle-class pay, based on international income surveys over the last three decades. After-tax median income in Canada appears to have been higher last year than the same measure in this country. The poor in Canada and much of western Europe earn more than the poor here.

These depressing trends have many causes, but the social struggles of men and boys are an important one. If the United States is going to build a better-functioning economy than the one we’ve had over the last 15 years, we’re going to have to solve our boy problems.

To put it another way, the American economy — for all its troubles (and all of the lingering sexism) — looks to be doing pretty well when you focus on girls. The portion of women earning a four-year college degree has jumped more than 75 percent over the last quarter-century, in line with what has happened in other rich countries. Median inflation-adjusted female earnings are up almost 35 percent over the same span, census data show — while male earnings, incredibly, haven’t risen at all.

“We know we’ve got a crisis, and the crisis is with boys,” said Elaine Kamarck, a resident scholar at Third Way and a former Clinton administration official. “We’re not quite sure why it’s happening.”

The rest: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/29/upshot/a-link-between-fidgety-boys-and-a-sputtering-economy.html


Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 01:22 pm
@Olivier5,
Interesting topic. Just watching for now.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 01:49 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Just to be clear, this is not about my personal gender... It's about gender roles in general.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 01:58 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Just to be clear, this is not about my personal gender... It's about gender roles in general.


I get that!

The issue is a serious one...and one I suspect will be dealt with (if dealt at all) the way so many of these things are dealt with in America...by use of what amounts to a Band-Aid.

There will be a political element that will suggest there really is no problem...and that any description of it as one is merely political correctness gone ape.

The other side of the aisle will counter with notions of the fall of humanity if the problem is not dealt with as radically as possible as absolutely soon as possible.

It will be argued with immense passion for several weeks (until something better comes along)...and then be put on the national back burner.

I hope not. I hope that some incremental steps can be taken to level the playing field. But I suspect the philosophy which will prevail will be a variation of: This is a problem better handled in the home...not by government or legislation. (Which, of course, means "not handled at all.")

The kids from privileged homes will receive some benefit (if the thing is given enough publicity)...and the less privileged will continue on the opposite end of an ever widening chasm.
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 04:15 pm
@Olivier5,
Me Oli, I'm happy to have my Better Half drive me all over the place
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 05:00 pm
@dalehileman,
Me too, if only because she likes to criticize my driving, which i find takes the pleasure out of it.

But if we all continue like that, on the long term our male descendants will not even bother to get a driving licence... (this is a caricature of course. You see my drift)
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 05:17 pm
@Olivier5,
We could end up like this guy.... (NSFW :-))
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 05:24 pm
@Olivier5,
This is an interesting article. I think part of the problem is we stopped letting boys be boys. Society has had a grudge against boys in general since the 1970's and the rise of feminism. There is nothing wrong with the rise of feminism but we did it at the cost of our young men and now they are lost.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 05:28 pm
@Baldimo,
Do you mean that what is expected of boys has changed, or that there are no clear social pressure anymore, no orientation given?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 05:44 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Me too, busy otherwise right now, though I am still dabbling as self distraction.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 05:53 pm
@Olivier5,
What is expected of a boy has changed. It isn't a good thing.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 05:56 pm
@Baldimo,
Why? Could you flesh out a bit?

There could be some good and some bad in any change.
0 Replies
 
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 07:11 pm
@Olivier5,
The development of the contraceptive pill has had a huge impact on delaying childbirthing age. Being able to decide when you are ready to become a mother, has allowed women the freedom to develop and pursue interests beyond childrearing, including furthering education. Having time to entertain a personal focus allows a person to explore possibilities and pursue goals. Women are no longer simply interested in careers, but career advancement as well. This freedom is relatively new and exciting. Through medical advancements such as IVF, and frozen egg technologies , women can delay childbirth lessening negative outcomes. This means even more time to pursue personal goals. A woman can now develop her mind and body, and be entirely financially independent . This has obviously impacted gender roles.
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 07:28 pm
@Olivier5,
I forgot to mention women in the U.S. are still doing most of the housework and child rearing . I think this may be due to past cultural indoctrination. Both men and women are trying to figure things out. I think it's interesting not all things catch up at the same time.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 08:06 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

This is an interesting article. I think part of the problem is we stopped letting boys be boys. Society has had a grudge against boys in general since the 1970's and the rise of feminism. There is nothing wrong with the rise of feminism but we did it at the cost of our young men and now they are lost.



I'd like to join in at a later time. The futures of our boys and girls is important. If your daughter becomes a brilliant surgeon, that doesn't mean your son or anybody else's son can't become a brilliant surgeon.

Too many young adults 20 - 35 old men and women rely heavily on their parents to catapult then into a better financial situation. I need to gather my thoughts and get back later.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 08:41 pm
@Germlat,
No disagreement with most of what you say. Technology has been a driver, including through allowing a demographic transition. But one can also consider that societies, ideas and ideologies drive research agendas. An obvious example is that a progressive society would prioritize reproductive and maternal health as a public health issue in state-funded research (because we're all universally born through it, girls AND boys). So the transition is also mental and social, and not only driven by technology.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 08:45 pm
@Germlat,
Quote:
I think it's interesting not all things catch up at the same time.

Can't be otherwise. Our societies are not pre-planned but self-regulated through feedback loops etc. which takes time. Takes a lot of trial-and-error to get anywhere, and much swings of the pendulum before a new equilibrium is found.
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 11:45 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
You see my drift
Oh yes Oli. My No. 2 Son thinks letting her drive me about is unmanly

Because she takes such good care of me I allow her to do anything she wishes but grateful after some 75 years driving almost every day, especially since she seems to enjoy doing so, was happy to have her new Subaru
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 11:53 am
@dalehileman,
Does she do the occasional plumbing or carpentry work, too? My wife still insists that this is a man's job... Gender roles not dead!
 

Related Topics

ADAM'S RIB - Discussion by Setanta
What can women do better than men? - Question by Robert Gentel
serve ladies first - Discussion by dyslexia
What sex is your brain? Take this Sex I.D test. - Discussion by Robert Gentel
The difference between men and women + a bonus - Discussion by Craven de Kere
How many genders are there? - Question by Christian0912
Is my budgie a male? Im pretty sure he is. - Question by Pickle and Tigerlily
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Evolving gender roles in our societies
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 10/13/2019 at 04:14:06