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Does political correcteness weaken the fabric of a nation?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2014 11:30 am
@neologist,
Interestingly, Polack here was the derogatory reference to Protestant "Poles" from Prussian Masuria, who became workers in the Ruhr district in the late 19th century.
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2014 11:39 am
@neologist,
Do you know how the Germans beat the Polish?

They marched in backwards and said they were just leaving.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2014 11:39 am
@neologist,
Same joke has been told here.

And in 1934 (and later) a "Polish football team" (Schalke 04 from Geslenkirchen, Ruhr district) was the German champion with players Szepan, Tilbulski, Przybylski, Kalwitzki, Kuzorra, ....
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2014 11:42 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I was called a lot of worse things as I was growing up. Polack was better than Magilla. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2014 11:45 am
But try substituting other ethnic groups for Poles and see what happens.

Better be careful. Some of them will understand the jokes. Laughing
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2014 02:15 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I don't know any better than you why they decided "African-American" was preferable to "Afro-American," but they did.

The following skips the fact that the change wasn't from "negro" or even "black" to "African-American," it was from "Afro-American."

NY Times 1989

I can understand why they would prefer either "Afro-American" or "African-American" to "black," and if I refer to them as "blacks" it is not intended as a sign of disrespect. I just hear so many African-Americans use the term "blacks" that I assume they don't find it offensive. I can't find anything on the web that would suggest they do.

I assure you that in the 60's and 70's the term of choice was "Afro-Americans." The following is from a 1967 edition of Ebony.

Ebony 1967

The change is no big deal though (and certainly not a matter of PC, just curious.

For a while, "People of Color" has been in vogue here, and seemingly, for some reason, used more in terms of women then men. I think it's use is a little pretentious, but that's probably because I most often hear it used by pretentious people. I take it to mean blacks, and latinos (with a very rare nod to folks living in or originating from the Indian Sub-Continent or Middle East).

I'm not fond of it. It's not very accurate since it rarely includes more than two groups, irrespective of actual skin color, and there is at least a logical implication that those outside of the group are people of no color. I think it was coined by someone who thought they had found a more lyrical way to say "African-Americans and Hispanic-Americans"


Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2014 02:25 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
We don't have such terms in Germans ... besides "German-Russian" (Deutschrusse), which sounds stupid and is wrong (not only grammatically). (Which is similar to the 'Polacks' mentioned above: they were actually Germans.)
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2014 02:43 pm
@maxdancona,
Children have been kicked out of school for making finger guns, eating a pop-tart until it looked like a gun and for even drawing a picture of a gun.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Thu 19 Jun, 2014 03:09 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

It's taking forever for us to adopt gender-neutral pronouns, so this move is very encouraging. The best we've got at this point is "they," which is obviously quite awkward. Some Swedes, for example, have started to use "hen" instead of "han" (he) and "hon" (she). And German parents can now select an indeterminate gender for their children.

Blah blah, etc.


In some cases, Blah, blah, blah is right but not, I think, in all.

The number of people to which these pronouns would be appropriate is very small, but if they wish to self-identify as an intersex individual and it's important for them to be referred to as "han" instead of "he" or "she", that's fine with me as long as they don't expect me or others to somehow recognize, without being told, of their status. I think, as well, that they are very likely to be disappointed if they expect this to catch on around the world. I can imagine though some politically correct people insisting that companies use these pronouns in advertisements or newspapers using then in articles that have nothing to do with the topic of gender (enter the blah, blah, blah).

From what I can discover estimates of the number of intersex individuals is highly dependent upon how one defines "intersex." Most websites, that I have found, that are devoted to the topic of intersex status report estimates of birth rates that range from 1 in 1,500 to 1 in 2,500. In each case they acknowledge that it's a difficult number to come up with. One though, Intersex Roadshow, claims it is as high as 1 in 150. This seems preposterous.

I did find this

Quote:
Anne Fausto-Sterling s suggestion that the prevalence of intersex might be as high as 1.7% has attracted wide attention in both the scholarly press and the popular media. Many reviewers are not aware that this figure includes conditions which most clinicians do not recognize as intersex, such as Klinefelter syndrome, Turner syndrome, and late-onset adrenal hyperplasia. If the term intersex is to retain any meaning, the term should be restricted to those conditions in which chromosomal sex is inconsistent with phenotypic sex, or in which the phenotype is not classifiable as either male or female. Applying this more precise definition, the true prevalence of intersex is seen to be about 0.018%, almost 100 times lower than Fausto-Sterling s estimate of 1.7%
.
source

Here is Fausto-Sterling's website
http://www.annefaustosterling.com/

Quote:
Dr. Anne Fausto-Sterling is a leading expert in biology and gender development and has achieved recognition for works that challenge entrenched scientific beliefs while engaging with the general public. Using a groundbreaking new approach to understanding gender differences, Dr. Anne Fausto-Sterling is shifting old assumptions about how humans develop particular traits. Dynamic systems theory permits one to understand how cultural difference becomes bodily difference. By applying a dynamic systems approach to the study of human development, Dr. C’s work exposes the flawed premise of the nature versus nurture debate


This quoted from her site and I am never impressed or convinced by these self-promoting blurbs which are almost always written by the person themselves. I have had numerous occasions to introduce guest speakers at industry and corporate seminars and functions and they always come prepared with the bio-blurb they want to be used. As you can imagine, they always use glowing terms.

In any case, from what else I have read, the previously cited criticism of her findings seems on the mark.

It's understandable why certain individuals would like to see a given minority status be as large as possible (without I guess becoming the majority). For the individual who actually has or believes he, she or han, has the status, it must be comforting to imagine not being quite so alone. For someone like Dr. Fausto-Sterling the larger the number of intersex individuals, the more relevant her work, and for those who are interested in being activists for the intersex, the degree of attention they can receive or the clout they can wield is directly related to the size of the group they wish to represent.

My conclusion, at this point, is that this is not a large enough group to generate or warrant a dramatic change in language.

Have done some of this internet "research," I know too that there are people who cannot be classified as intersex, based on any definition, who favor the adoption of gender-neutral pronouns as a replacement for the gender-specific ones we have used for centuries…not as an addition. As always these folks are entitled to their opinions, but as usual, the basis of their desire for change is predicated upon hyperbolic fancies about the horribly destructive nature of gender identity, which most often is expressed by a screed against old white men of privilege.

Gender-neutral pronouns need not be a politically correct topic, but it already is, so yeah…blah, blah, blah.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jun, 2014 12:47 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Do you realize how ridiculous this type of story is? Even if it happened (it could have been made up) it is still ridiculous...

1. People have always done stupid things. In the 1600's they were tearing down schools because they were afraid of witches.

2. This is a story about what happened in 1 school. There are about 100,000 schools in the US. You can probably find a school where any crazy thing has happened that proves any crazy point you want to prove... especially when there are people who think like you do sending you them on Facebook.
Of course it's ridiculous. Why do you think I posted it?

My intent with the OP was to focus on the division caused by political correctness and the sometimes incredible effort and cost of meeting the needs of those seeking redress. I tagged it "Feet of Clay" for a reason.

BTW, I seldom read my Facebook page except to share family info.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jun, 2014 04:15 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
With the possible exception of African-American, I think the ones used here are stupid too.

Unfortunately, people with black colored skin in this country are pervasively seen as different enough to be referred to by their skin color.

If someone asked me to pick someone out of a crowd and I knew the person was black, the crowd white, there would be utility in me saying "it's that black guy over there." Making the process longer and less accurate by describing him by less contrasting aspects of his appearance would be silly if it was based on some reluctance to identify him by his skin color. I would certainly expect someone to refer to me as "that white guy" if I was in a crowd of people with black skin.

Ten thousand years from now, when all traces of racism have been swept from the planet, people will be saying " it's that black guy over there."

There are plenty of times though when black people are described as "black" without any useful relevance. Sometimes it has at least racist overtones but sometimes no ill purpose is intended, like an article in People magazine about "black actor Denzel Washington."

I can understand why someone would prefer to be identified by some expression of their nationality and origins rather than simply their skin color.

I grew up in the NYC area, and at the time (it may still be this way now) it was common to ask someone you your recently came to meet “What are you?” which always meant “What is your ethnic background?” The area is heavily populated by the descendants from immigrants who arrived in the US in the mid to late 1800s and very early 1900s. Like me, most of the kids I knew had grandparents (or great-grandparents) who immigrated to the US from overseas (In my case, Ireland and Norway). This immigrant heritage was a big component of our identity. No one though, referred to themselves as anything but Americans, not Irish-Americans, not Italian-Americans etc.

When I moved south to North Carolina I heard the same question asked, “What are you?” This time though it meant “What religion are you.”

hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Jun, 2014 04:49 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
When I moved south to North Carolina I heard the same question asked, “What are you?” This time though it meant “What religion are you.”
In olympia wa what is being asked is are you gay/straight/other?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2014 01:44 pm
Steven Spielberg - Dino Killer

5,000 comments. Certainly a lot were playing along with the joke, but not all, which is either an example of how stupid the PC are or how quick they are to attack the perceived offender without giving much thought to the perceived offense.

http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article3841879.ece/alternates/s615/steven-spielberg-dinosaur-hunting-joke.jpg

Then there is this recent story

Kendall Jones Big Game Hunter

Kendall Jones Big Game Hunter 2

Kendall Jones Big Game Hunter 3

No photos to post, not because I don't want to offend anyone, but because I, personally, find them grotesque.

I also find the reaction to this woman's photos pretty grotesque

Quote:
A petition circulated on the White House’s Change.org website demands that Jones be banned from Africa. Anonymous commenters said Jones should be hunted down like the animals she targeted. Rape threats followed. Some called her a "slut" and "bimbo."


Thanks in part to petitions with hundreds of thousands of signatures, Facebook took down Jones' homepage and photos based on some flimsy pretense that they violated FB's "animal abuse" standards:

Quote:
"...reported content that promotes poaching of endangered species, the sale of animals for organized fight or content that includes extreme acts of animal abuse."


Of course it took several more days for them to take down the FB Page titled "Kill Kendall Jones" which was very popular among gentle and beneficent animal lovers.

Now there is even a contingent that is offended by the sexism felt to be implicit in the condemnation directed at a woman trophy hunter.

What a world.

hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Jul, 2014 06:34 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
It is only a matter of time before admitting that you like to hunt will be on par with admitting that you like to tie women up and beat them (consensual BDSM), IE is not for polite company. And you know that tolerance that we hear so much about? Ya......
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2015 05:32 pm
@neologist,
This just in:
Retarded NJ school suspends 7'th grader for twirling pencil
http://able2know.org/topic/240414-1#post-5628333
0 Replies
 
NSFW (view)
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 24 Mar, 2015 09:51 pm
Quote:
DHS Secretary: Reading Quran reminds me of quintessential American values


This is PC and pandering and lying. What kind of stupid does this guy and administration think Americans are. He should be fired along with Obama and the whole administration.

Quote:
Yeah, you know — quintessential American values like…slaying infidels wherever you find them:

2:191-193: “And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; persecution is more grievous than slaying. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then, if they fight you, slay them — such is the recompense of unbelievers, but if they give over, surely Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s; then if they give over, there shall be no enmity save for evildoers.”

…and wife-beating:

4:34: “Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that Allah has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for Allah’s guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; Allah is All-high, All-great.”

…and killing those who leave Islam:

4:89: “They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of Allah; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper.”

…and crucifying or amputating the hands and feet of those who “hasten about the earth to do corruption”:

5:33: “This is the recompense of those who fight against Allah and His Messenger, and hasten about the earth, to do corruption there: they shall be slaughtered, or crucified, or their hands and feet shall alternately be struck off; or they shall be banished from the land. That is a degradation for them in this world; and in the world to come awaits them a mighty chastisement.”

…and amputating the hands of thieves:

5:38: “And the thief, male and female: cut off the hands of both, as a recompense for what they have earned, and a punishment exemplary from Allah; Allah is All-mighty, All-wise.”

…and beheading the unbelievers:

8:12: “When thy Lord was revealing to the angels, ‘I am with you; so confirm the believers. I shall cast into the unbelievers’ hearts terror; so smite above the necks, and smite every finger of them!'”

…and fighting people until they submit to your religion:

8:39: “Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s entirely; then if they give over, surely Allah sees the things they do.”

…and striking terror into the hearts of the enemies of Allah:

8:60: “Make ready for them whatever force and strings of horses you can, to terrify thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others besides them that you know not; Allah knows them. And whatsoever you expend in the way of Allah shall be repaid you in full; you will not be wronged.”

…and killing idolaters:

9:5: “Then, when the sacred months are drawn away, slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate.”

…and subjugating Jews and Christians (the People of the Book):

9:29: “Fight those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden — such men as practise not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book — until they pay the tribute out of hand and have been humbled.”

…and killing and being killed for Allah:

9:111: “Allah has bought from the believers their selves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of Allah; they kill, and are killed; that is a promise binding upon Allah in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Koran; and who fulfils his covenant truer than Allah? So rejoice in the bargain you have made with Him; that is the mighty triumph.”

…and being harsh to unbelievers:

9:123: “O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you; and let them find in you a harshness; and know that Allah is with the godfearing.”

…and beheading unbelievers:

47:4: “When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then, when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds; then set them free, either by grace or ransom, till the war lays down its loads. So it shall be; and if Allah had willed, He would have avenged Himself upon them; but that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will not send their works astray.”

What could be more American?

NSFW (view)
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2015 12:09 pm
Quote:
The New Intolerance


Quote:
This brings us to fact three about the new intolerance: It is dangerous not only for the obvious reason that it spells censorship, but even more because it spells self-censorship—including within the churches. Inside Christianity itself, the scramble over the sexual revolution turns a community of sinners united by the shared search for redemption into something very different: a discrete series of aggrieved factions, each clamoring for spiritual entitlement. It’s institutionally destructive.

In fact, it’s no exaggeration to say that the divisive tone of some discussions within Christian ranks these days is itself evidence of the power of the new intolerance. Given the sheer malignant force of the thing, capitulation seems to some an obvious if not optimal protective resort. But that’s an illusion. This is not a theological point. It’s a historical fact. Religious capitulation to the revolution’s demands has been tried over and over, and the results are plain to see: The churches that tried to protect themselves in that way are dying. They do not replace themselves literally or figuratively; their morale is low; some will not even exist a hundred years from now. Responding to the sexual revolution with religious capitulation is doomed to failure. It’s like trying to put out a house fire by throwing dynamite at it.

As a related matter, it’s worth at least pausing to wonder whether the revival of anti-Semitism in parts of Europe today might not have a religious component after all. For while the beatings and ostracism visited on Jewish people in parts of Europe today are delivered by those who hate the state of Israel, the inexplicable tolerance of these acts by many other people in Europe still demands explanation. Maybe some of it has to do with the shared moral code that joins Judaism and Christianity at the root—and the deep resentment of some people today that such a code has ever so much as existed.

Fact four about the new intolerance: It claims to command the moral high ground, but in fact it does not and cannot. Let’s start with the briefest of tallies here. In the name of the revolution defended by the new intolerance, unborn innocents are killed by the millions every year, overwhelmingly on the sole ground that they are inconvenient. The revolution singles out as particularly unwanted the fetuses who are female, millions more of whom are killed than males, to the apparent and bizarre indifference of many who claim otherwise to speak for womankind.

Also, as we have already seen, that same revolution is no friend of the poor—far from it. The latest compelling evidence comes from sociologist W. Bradford Wilcox and Robert I. Lerman’s seminal work, For Richer, for Poorer: How Family Structures Economic Success in America. Among the arresting findings:

We estimate that the growth in median income of families with children would be 44 percent higher if the United States enjoyed 1980 levels of married parenthood today. Further, at least 32 percent of the growth in family-income inequality since 1979 among families with children and 37 percent of the decline in men’s employment rates during that time can be linked to the decreasing number of Americans who form and maintain stable, married families.

The revolution, in other words, has been driving one of the most divisive political issues in Western society today: income inequality. It has been driving the middle class into the ground. And that is only the beginning of the problems presented to the poor by a political order that aids and abets the revolution, let alone the attending moral hazards. To name just one, there is no shortage of rich white people whose solution to the problems of poorer black people, especially in Africa, is to tell them to make fewer of themselves (a phenomenon P. J. O’Rourke has memorably dubbed “just enough of me, way too much of you”).

Out there in the flooded public square, two visions compete for human beings. Which one stands on higher ground?

Look back again at what happened when the federal government of the United States decided that the demands of the revolution included mandating that health insurance cover contraception. The particular battle between the government and the Little Sisters of the Poor came straight out of central casting—from hell.

It’s as if the producers of a movie had sat around pitching ideas that went like this: “I know! Let’s do something really preposterous. Let’s make the federal government beat up on nuns.” And someone else says, “I know! Not just any nuns, but nuns who work with the destitute and outcast.” And a third one says, “I know! I’ve got it! How about we have the government try and kneecap . . . the Little Sisters of the Poor?”

Of course, had any such meeting actually happened, everyone would have walked away from the project—because anyone in Hollywood could see that there’d be no purchase in attacking the Little Sisters of the Poor; who would stand for it? As it turned out, plenty of people—people aligned with the new intolerance. This is only high ground if you’re standing in a ditch.


Three more thoughts on the new intolerance. Take a look you brainwashed zombies. It shouldn't hurt.


http://www.firstthings.com/article/2015/03/the-new-intolerance
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 31 Mar, 2015 01:40 pm
@giujohn,
Why was this listed as NSFW and who has the ability to list it as such?
 

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