As A Wise Man, Umm, Guy, Once Said

You've voiced your hatred of the NHS on numerous occasions.

Your post gave the impression that many countries, and by implication, the citizens of those countries supported Bush's actions. The reality is far from the truth. In Britain's case, Blair was so obsessed with the 'special relationship,' and his own neocon aspirations that he ignored the wishes of his own party and his own country.

As for the rest, Israel, (no surprise there,) a bunch of island nations fearful of the consequences of upsetting the empire, and Eastern European states wanting a bit of quid pro quo regarding Putin and Russian ascendency. So if you take out the states that weren't bribed or coerced, you're not left with many. A far far cry from the allied nations who fought the Nazis.

Old deal, already partly paid for.


A bit of context: that was one year after the big Franco-US showdown about Iraq. The US had 20,000 troops in Afghanistan. If their attention had not been diverted to their war of choice in Iraq, they could have sent 100,000 troops to Afghanistan. During the NATO summit, Bush had paraded around Istanbul saying Turkey should be part of the EU... Asking "old Europe" for more troops in Afghanistan because the US were too busy making a mess of their invasion of Iraq was stupid, as always with the Chimp...


That's a lie.


What Iraqi attacks?


Ngo Who?


Maybe the timing was not right? (Hamas was designated a terrorist group a few years later)


Once in a long while, France may behave as a slightly more unruly US poodle than other European nations... That could be perceived as insubordination or obstructionism. I do think it was warranted in the case of Iraq.

What's with all the worry about Americans killed. German soldiers don't receive the same concern. When you get yourself involved in war crimes, the sympathy belongs solely to the Iraqi people.

... and god knows how many Iraqi lives ... .

Typical of the USA and USians.

Celebrating a massive war crime isn't unseemly. You are much sicker than I thought, Finn.

Finn: Quote:
5) Why they refused to support Ngo Dinh Diem in Vietnam

Olivier 5: who?

Not sure Finn go the spelling right and I don't rightly care.

The USA installed dictator that the USA assassinated.

Thanks. I checked. Just one more dictator...

I never voiced "hatred" for the NHS. You’ve chosen to interpret criticism as “hatred.” The notion that I would “hate” the NHS is absurd on its face. Why would I "hate" the NHS? Neither I nor any of my family are subject to it and there is absolutely no indication that it is about to be adopted as an American institution anytime soon. I don’t want to see it duplicated in the US, but if you guys like it, more power to you.

And, the NHS, very obviously, isn't all British institutions, so even if I did “hate” that one British institution, extrapolating this to accuse me of having contempt for British institutions would be, at best, an obviously flawed argument.

My post definitely gave the impression that many countries supported Bush's actions since over 40 did, and because, in this case, the impression is based on absolute fact. You stand alone in inferring than a statement of fact about nations' actions is somehow a statement of how the majority of the citizenry of those nations feel about the actions. Again, your argument is at best, obviously flawed.

It is quite clear that you have no use for Tony Blair. Fair enough, but I suggest you stick to that line of argument and avoid others that are not supportable and make you look foolish.

As for your comments about the Iraq Coalition, let me begin by saying that I provided the count of members in response to Glitterbags assertion that as respects to Iraq, we were "on our own." Clearly that is wrong.

Next, I'll present this question to you: Which of these countries is an "island Nation" or an "Eastern European State?"

1) Australia
2) El Salvador
3) Denmark
4) South Korea
5) Tonga
6) Azerbaijan
7) Singapore
8) Mongolia
9) Italy
10) Norway
11) Japan
12) Netherlands
13 Portugal
14) New Zealand
15) Thailand
16) Honduras
17) Spain
18) Nicaragua
19) Iceland
20) United Kingdom

And this is from the list of nations that actually provided troops, not from the larger list of nations that lent their names to the Iraq Coalition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-National_Force_%E2%80%93_Iraq

Last time I looked Britain was classified as an "island nation" and so I have to wonder if you extend your apparent disdain for "Island Nations" to your own country.

There were also 15 "Eastern European" nations that sent troops as well. Your disdain for them as well is quite apparent, even though if there are any nations within Europe who are appreciative of the fragile nature of freedom and the role the Unites States has played in advancing and preserving that state in Europe, it is those that are situated in the "East."

I'm sure Poles, Czechs, Ukrainians, Hungarians, Latvians, Estonians, Romanians, Bulgarians, Moldavians, Albanians, Bosnians, Macedonians, Georgians, Slovakians, and Lithuanians would be quite sympathetic with your categorizing them as corrupt sycophants.



Of course done of the nations in the Iraq Coalition were directly threatened by Iraq, whereas most of the WWII Allies were by Germany or Japan. One could easily argue that membership in the Allies had far more to do with self-preservation than any affinity for the US or its goals.

But then, who the hell is comparing the Iraqi Coalition to the Allies of WWII (other than you)?

Look, France is more than entitled to pursue whatever foreign policy objectives it believes is in its best interests, and is under no compulsion to support American objectives. It would, also, not be the only nation that based foreign policy decisions on commercial interests, and that includes the US.

It is fairly clear though that France has, to varying degrees throughout the years, seen itself as a counterpoint to US influence, and that this (French Obstructionism ) has manifested in its foreign policy.

I admit that personal experience has left me less than affectionate towards France, and that despite the fact that what I experienced was not limited to treatment by one or two Parisians but found to be prevalent throughout the city, it is unfair to judge all of the French by that experience. All Parisians perhaps, but not all French. Never-the-less the French government has enjoyed sticking it to America whenever it can. Maybe this plays well to the local audience, but it is not unreasonable, I think, to find it petty and irritating as an American.

I think that when the chips are really down, the US can probably rely upon France as an ally, but beyond that, not at all.

Be that as it may, the main point of my post was not to bash France, although I admit I clearly veered into that territory, but to make the point that the mere fact that the French did not support the US in the invasion of Iraq should not be seen as anything even approaching proof that Iraq did not have WMDs. As I noted, even if the evidence that Saddam possessed WMDs had been totally irrefutable, France may have very well found a reason why it couldn't support the US invasion. "The timing wasn't right."

Since they would all be translations from the Vietnamese, it's anyone's guess whether the spelling is "right," but Ngo Dinh Diem is the common spelling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngo_Dinh_Diem

Odd that you can't address what I write, Finn, except with diversion and obfuscation.

That was both obfuscation and diversion. Try addressing the vicious war crimes and the half century of terrorism by the USA against a people who only wanted their freedom.

At the very least, can't you see the incredible hypocrisy of the USA?

I have repeatedly addressed what you have written, but it is obvious that unless I address it by stating: "You are right JTT, the US is an evil terrorist nation and I have been a foolish tool all along," you will not be satisfied.

Believe me, if I thought that responding in this way would cause you to leave me alone and pester someone else ( May I suggest Setanta, Izzy, bobsal or Glitterbag?) I would be happy to do so.

You never address it, Finn, in fact you have said that you don't want to even read the material.

All you do is go to these silly extremes.

You write here, your writings are subject to scrutiny and reply. You do the same so please stop with the sob routine.

If you used the ignore feature, the rest of wouldn't have to put up with JTT either.

You hate the NHS because it's a success, and it treats the children of poor people. You particularly hated the fact that my own son received life saving medication.

You've started a thread about what disgusts you about the British people, particularly the fact that we don't march around waving flags like a bunch of fascists. You feel you have the right to cram your disgusting Nazi morality down our throats.

You may like certain buildings in England but you've got a real problem with the vast majority of the population who refuse to tug their forelocks and act like a vassal state.

You're a smart guy Finn, you knew Saddam had no WMDs, you just get a kick out of genocide.

Tonga and Iceland are both island states, Azerbaijan and Mongolia were concerned about Russian expansion, Latin American states are easily coerced. America orchestrated a coup in Honduras in 2009.

As far as the rest of Europe is concerned they didn't want war either, a load of backroom deals with the likes of Silvio Berlusconi explains that. The whole thing was shockingly corrupt and completely immoral.

True.

My approach has been to thumb down most of his comments, whether directed to me or not, so that I don't have to see them. You may want to do the same.

I have my reason for engaging with him from time to time, but I don't care to share it with anyone.

More gross hyperbole, distortion and outright lying from you.

I've addressed it all before, and won't do so again.

So you remain a coward, Finn. Surprise, surprise.