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Poll: 73% of Americans Say Iraqi Abuse "Unjustified"

 
 
Rick d Israeli
 
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Reply Sun 16 May, 2004 02:31 pm
Are there also people here who really would never join the army (like me)?
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MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 May, 2004 03:22 pm
here! served in civil (Croatia has system in which army is obligatory, but you can choose civil service - it lasts two months more /8 instead of 6/ but you don't wear weapons, you serve in civil organizations)
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 May, 2004 03:39 pm
MyOwnUsername wrote:
here! served in civil (Croatia has system in which army is obligatory, but you can choose civil service - it lasts two months more /8 instead of 6/ but you don't wear weapons, you serve in civil organizations)


Personally, I see no problem with compulsive service to one's country
as long as it can be done in different organizations, as you describe. The discipline of a 6 weeks of boot camp to develop outstanding physical habits and an understanding of teamwork is a positive thing as well, AS LONG AS THERE'S SERVICE POSITIONS OTHER THAN MILITARY!!!!

There's plenty of work to do right here in our borders, and this kind of thing could not only enrich the life experience of young people, it could present an opportunity for the underprivileged to earn a chance out through service, and the entitled rich snots the chance to see there's more to life than privilege and the pursuit of personal gain.
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MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2004 12:22 am
I agree with you.
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mporter
 
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Reply Mon 17 May, 2004 01:54 am
I am sure that Mr. Hobitbob would think there is a moral equivalence between decapitating an American civilian on Television, with cries of Allah Akbar in the background and the crimes done by a few American soldiers.

Mr. Hobitbob apparently has not noticed that Court Martials are already underway for the American Soldiers who abused Iraqi prisoners.

Mr. Hobitbob has not, I am sure, found evidence that any Iraqi court or, for that matter, any Arab court, is bringing charges against the animals who decapitated Mr. Berg.

That is precisely the difference. The USA is a country of laws. The fundamentalist Arabs, according to the Islamist scholar, Bernard Lewis, are a group who actually believe that the destiny of Islam is to take over the world and convert all of the "infidels" to Islam.
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BillW
 
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Reply Mon 17 May, 2004 01:30 pm
Quote:
Who Is Bernard Lewis?

We will return to the book in a moment, but before that, we need to step back some twenty-five years and examine how Edward Said, in Orientalism, has described this Orientalist tiger's stripes and his cunning ploys at concealment. Edward Said gets to the nub of Lewis's Orientalist project when he writes that his "work purports to be liberal objective scholarship but is in reality very close to being propaganda against his subject material." Lewis's work is "aggressively ideological." He has dedicated his entire career, spanning more than five decades, to a "project to debunk, to whittle down, and to discredit the Arabs and Islam." Said writes:

The core of Lewis's ideology about Islam is that it never changes, and his whole mission is to inform conservative segments of the Jewish reading public, and anyone else who cares to listen, that any political, historical, and scholarly account of Muslims must begin and end with the fact that Muslims are Muslims.

Although Lewis's objectives are ominous, his methods are quite subtle; he prefers to work "by suggestion and insinuation." In order to disarm his readers and win their trust and admiration, he delivers frequent "sermons on the objectivity, the fairness, the impartiality of a real historian." This is only a cover, a camouflage, for his political propaganda. Once he is seated on his high Orientalist perch, he goes about cleverly insinuating how Islam is deficient in and opposed to universal values, which, of course, always originate in the West. It is because of this deficiency in values that Arabs have trouble accepting a democratic Israel-it is always "democratic" Israel. Lewis can write "objectively" about the Arab's "ingrained" opposition to Israel without ever telling his readers that Israel is an imperialist creation, and an expansionist, colonial-settler state that was founded on terror, wars, and ethnic cleansing. Lewis's work on Islam represents the "culmination of Orientalism as a dogma that not only degrades its subject matter but also blinds its practitioners."

Lewis's scholarly mask slips off rather abruptly when he appears on television, a feat that he accomplishes with predictable regularity. Once he is on the air, his polemical self, the Orientalist crouching tiger, takes over, all his sermons about objectivity forgotten, and then he does not shrink from displaying his sneering contempt for the Arabs and Muslims more generally, his blind partisanship for Israel, or his bristling hostility toward Iran. One recent example will suffice here. In a PBS interview broadcast on 16 April 2002, hosted by Charlie Rose, he offered this gem: "Asking Arafat to give up terrorism would be like asking Tiger to give up golf." That is a statement whose malicious intent and vindictive meanness might have been excusable if it came from an official Israeli spokesman.

After this background check, do we really want to hear from this "sage" about "what went wrong" with Islamic societies; why, after nearly a thousand years of expansive power and world leadership in many branches of the arts and sciences, they began to lose their élan, their military advantage, and their creativity and, starting in the nineteenth century, capitulated to their historical adversary, the West? And, though Islamic societies have regained their political independence, why has their economic and cultural decline proved so difficult to reverse? Yet, although our stomachs turn at the prospect, we must sample the gruel Lewis offers, taste it, and analyze it, if only to identify the toxins that it contains and that have poisoned far too many Western minds for more than fifty years.


http://www.counterpunch.org/alam06282003.html
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Deecups36
 
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Reply Mon 17 May, 2004 02:18 pm
One recent example will suffice here. In a PBS interview broadcast on 16 April 2002, hosted by Charlie Rose, he offered this gem: "Asking Arafat to give up terrorism would be like asking Tiger to give up golf." That is a statement whose malicious intent and vindictive meanness might have been excusable if it came from an official Israeli spokesman.

I guess he could've just as easily said, ""Asking Arafat to give up terrorism would be like asking Bush to tell the truth about starting a war against Iraq."
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2004 03:23 pm
Dee - you can be more economical on words -

"Asking Arafat to give up terrorism would be like asking Bush to tell the truth" Cool
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mporter
 
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Reply Mon 17 May, 2004 11:29 pm
Bill W's exposition on Bernard Lewis would be damning if one did not know just who Edward Said was. I say was since he died last year at 67.

Here is some information concerning Edward Said:

"One of the leading literary critics of the 20th century as Professor of English and comparitive literature at Columbia University, New York. He was widely regarded as the OUTSTANDING REPRESENTATIVE OF THE POST STRUTURALIST LEFT IN AMERICA AS WELL AS THE MOST ARTICULATE AND VISIBLE SPOKESMAN OF THE

PALESTINIAN CAUSE IN THE UNITED STATES>"


I hardly need to state that he was not an objective reviewer of Lewis's works. In fact, Said was regarded(particularly in New York which has a large Jewish population) as a spokesman for the rabid martyrs who blew themselves up on buses and in cafes to massacre as many Jews as possible.

Again, I invite anyone to read Lewis for themselves.

www.theatlantic.com/issues.90sep/rage.htm

The name of the seminal article is:

"The Roots of Muslim Rage"

subtitled

"Why so many Muslims deeply resent the West, and why their bitterness will not easily be mollified"

Judge for yourselves. Do not view Lewis through the biased spectacles of a far left winger who was the most visible advocate of the Palestinian cause in the USA- Edward Said.
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