Of Frank's Ignorance

@Olivier5,

Let me give it my .02c on "observe." It can be real or imaginary. It can be subjective or objective. Each individual perceives reality subjectively. Much of how we perceive our reality is based on our biology and environment. It's based on our (subjective) knowledge about what we believe to be factual or true.

The closest thing we humans can consider objective are scientific findings because it's based on research and investigation that can be replicated, tested, proved, and not based on individual subjective bias or emotion. Science also has the benefit of correcting past mistakes and/or theories.

That's the closest us humans can achieve objective reality.

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@classicalcynic,

Observe: to watch carefully especially with attention to details or behavior - to carefully collect data on a phenomenon in order to understand or know it.

Mental object: anything that happens in the mind. Eg a mathematical proof, a poem, a concept, a song, etc.

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@Olivier5,

sigh, those definitions are of a common dictionary .
thus you did not come to that knowledge by observation.
[to (carefully) collect]
observation without reason does not permit knowledge to form.
so you disagree with intuitive knowledge?

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@Olivier5,

also define knowledge...
and understanding.
and mind?

1 Reply

@classicalcynic,

They only partly come from a common dictionary. But even looking up a word in a dictionary is making an observation.

Quote:

observation without reason does not permit knowledge to form.

that is true too. Both are necessary.

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@classicalcynic,

Why should I be the one doing all the defining?

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@Olivier5,

when you clearly point out you idea of what is then i will reciprocate by pointing out your faults.
if you will define...
also do you disbelive in intuitive knowledge?

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@classicalcynic,

classicalcynic wrote:

do you mean limited as incomprehensive?

Nope. I mean as "exclusionary."

Quote:

his focus seems set on winning rather than gaining insight.
i don't think that at all.

You are certainly free and welcome to think that, cc...but as time goes by, I suspect you will see that I am correct. Keep asking him the kinds of questions you are asking...and having him defend his position in the face of reasonable alternatives to those positions. I doubt it will take long for your to change your mind on that point.

Quote:

also empirism lead to practical knowledge and tool making but not greater insight into happiness, virtue, ethics ect..
and knowledge about these subjects cant come about empirically or if they can not to a great result.

Not sure of what you are asking or asserting here.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

It's a hit, not a try. You did not even try to address it. It passed through you like a cannon ball.

Therefore, you probably KNOW you can't address it. :-)

Not even close to a hit.

Gotta go play some golf this morning...but we'll talk more later.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

his focus seems set on winning rather than gaining insight.
i don't think that at all

those where meant as separate statements.
1 his focus seems set on winning rather than gaining insight.
2 i don't think ur stupid or giving up

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@classicalcynic,

classicalcynic wrote:

his focus seems set on winning rather than gaining insight.
i don't think that at all

those where meant as separate statements.
1 his focus seems set on winning rather than gaining insight.
2 i don't think ur stupid or giving up

I apologize for not understanding what you were trying to say.

I certainly understood what you meant when you wrote it the second way.

If you had written it that way originally, I would have responded:

He is OBSESSED with this notion of "winning"...which seem absurd considering we are in a discussion rather than a contest.

In any case, the obsession hinders any effort to actually have a discussion, because setting up this supposed "win" is much more important for him than actually discussing.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

he also has not responded to my asking 4 clarification.
he may be offline or avoiding it, idk..
but as 4 the political thred, i'm basically a political taoist, and if it comes down to it i'll run away to another country.. lol
no but if im forced to i will violently oppose you way of thinking in action in government...
see you on the battlefield!!

1 Reply

@classicalcynic,

classicalcynic wrote:

he also has not responded to my asking 4 clarification.
he may be offline or avoiding it, idk..
but as 4 the political thred, i'm basically a political taoist, and if it comes down to it i'll run away to another country.. lol
no but if im forced to i will violently oppose you way of thinking in action in government...
see you on the battlefield!!

My feelings and sensibilities regarding government are iconoclastic...to say the least. But things are changing at a geometric pace these days...and I suspect the future is not something that can look "good" to present-day minds.

Things will work out.

Or...they won't.

I hope we never do battle over any of this, cc.

Hell...an asteroid may hit the planet and destroy damn near every living thing...and we will have to start all over.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

iconoclastic as active nihilism?

I hope we never do battle over any of this,

but to battle with your foes is so much fun...

Hell...an asteroid may hit the planet and destroy damn near every living thing...and we will have to start all over.

if we survive.

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@Frank Apisa,

HAHAHAHSHAHAHAHA! That was a hit and you KNOW it...

Run away, little Frank... Run away. Maybe you can run away from your lies. Maybe you can getting away with confusing your own arse with stars and planets... :-))

1 Reply

@classicalcynic,

Frank's reading abilities are weak. Avoid complex sentences when talking to him.

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@Olivier5,

if you will define... that which i listed above...
also do you disbelive in intuitive knowledge?
also is that a pic of bruce lee

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@classicalcynic,

Quote:

when you clearly point out you idea of what is then i will reciprocate by pointing out your faults.

I use these terms in their conventional sense. Any dictionary would give an answer to your question.

Knowledge seems tough to define... Mind is easier: "something like you."

Quote:

do you disbelive in intuitive knowledge?

Intuition is an important topic for me. I do believe in it quite strongly, though you and I might have a different view about where it comes from.

Don't believe a word coming from Frank about me. He lies as soon as he opens his mouth.

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@Olivier5,

well i'll just point out believeing in intuition means an inner contradiction in your theory of the origins of knowledge.

1 Reply

@classicalcynic,

Not necessarily. Intuition could be based on experience.

1 Reply

Of Frank's Ignorance

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