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Can Anyone Explain why NOT Labeling Meat as Halal is Offensive?

 
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 May, 2014 10:13 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

bobsal u1553115 wrote:

People are stupid.

Social media storm powered by the ignorant?


that covers it well
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 May, 2014 10:25 pm
On rereading, I can see some points for hawk.
Luckily, I am sleepy and will forget.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 02:20 am
It is significant that the story seems to stem from articles in The Sun and the Daily Mail, which are both muckraking tabloids on the right wing of the political spectrum. The Mail in particular has a heavy anti-Muslim agenda, and is regarded by many (even on the right) as a despicable journal. As the Guardian says "There is a subtext to the outrage, for it plays into the narrative of interlopers forcing change upon wider society. Like the Sun's splash on pizzas; that's half-baked too."
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 02:39 am
As a side issue, someone said "if fish could scream, fishing would be banned".
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 02:43 am
this makes to most sense of anything i have found to date about the nature of the source of the offense

Quote:
The food-related sensitivities of 4.8 per cent of the British population should apparently trump the right of the other 95 per cent to choose whether to chomp birds cut up before death or after death. We’re entering an era of default halal, where more and more meat is made Muslim-friendly, just in case – in case a Muslim should eat a non-Islamic chicken wing and kick up a storm.
The sandwich shop Subway has also gone default halal, dishing up halal-only meat in 185 of its stores in the UK and taking ham and bacon off the menu. What about those of us who might want a delicious bit of pig-flesh in our 6in sarnie? Apparently our wishes come a poor second to the Muslim minority’s religious preferences. Many schools have gone default halal, too. Last year it was revealed that three quarters of schools in one London borough now feed their pupils halal grub only.
Social norms seem to be remoulding themselves around the concerns of a very small section of British society. The majority’s eating habits are being brought into line with those of a minority.
Yet anyone who criticises the phenomenon of default halal risks being branded an Islamophobe.
.
.
.
Muslims aren’t holding modern Britain to ransom. No, modern Britain, unsure of itself, constantly exercises cultural caution, rewriting plays, curriculums and menus to placate what it perceives to be moody minorities who must never suffer any sort of emotional hurt.


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100270578/my-compulsory-halal-pizza-is-hard-to-swallow/
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 03:36 am
@contrex,
contrex wrote:

It is significant that the story seems to stem from articles in The Sun and the Daily Mail, which are both muckraking tabloids on the right wing of the political spectrum. The Mail in particular has a heavy anti-Muslim agenda, and is regarded by many (even on the right) as a despicable journal. As the Guardian says "There is a subtext to the outrage, for it plays into the narrative of interlopers forcing change upon wider society. Like the Sun's splash on pizzas; that's half-baked too."


That's the general feeling over here, but Hawkeye is a doom monger who likes to jump to conclusions based on half truths. The main problem people had with halal meat was one of animal welfare, but halal meat satisfies animal welfare regulations if the animal is stunned beforehand. All the halal meat in question is from animals that were stunned beforehand.

There were a lot of letters from vegetarians/vegans on radio 4's Pm show all complaining of hypocrisy and Moslem bashing on the part of "carnivores." The one letter that stood out was from a Sikh who claimed that his religion forbade the consumption of halal meat.

At the end of the day this could all be fixed with proper labelling.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 03:45 am
@fresco,
I've watched a truckload of camels being led up the shute to the slaughter yard. You could hear them literally screaming in terror. Two of them jumped the rails and tried to escape.

It was one of the key factors in my decision re eating arthropods and shellfish only.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 04:00 am
There's a large Muslim population in Canada in general, and Ontario in particular. Ontario vigorously applies the meat handling laws of the province. One sees signs for halal meats all over Toronto. There are a lot of people from "The Islands" (i.e., the West Indies) here, and they like to eat goat. You will see West Indian delis, shops and restaurants which advertise that goat is available on their premises, and they make a point of the their meats being halal. It's not a big problem here.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 04:06 am
@Setanta,
It's not a big problem here either, just the red tops making mischief.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 04:08 am
Personally I think the "offence" (BritSpell) is invented by newspapers with an agenda. To characterise it as 4.8% "forcing" 95.2% to "change" is to use loaded language and is in my opinion misleading, and possibly mischievously so. I have seen reports that UK Muslims are disproportionately more likely to use fast food outlets (some say 20% of customers in urban areas). It's a question of commercial reality. The fast food market in Britain is intensely competitive and chains operate on extremely tight margins. They are well aware that most customers just want tasty food that is cheap and won't make them ill, at least not in the short term. To see an analysis that comes from the opposite slant than the Torygraph, try the Guardian:

Quote:
Despite recent reports to the contrary, many fast-food and restaurant chains in Britain have been using halal – in Arabic "permissible" or "lawful" – meat for years. Nearly 100 KFC outlets around the country serve halal-approved chicken, as do around 75 – a fifth – of Nando's. The sandwiches served in selected Subway stores have contained halal meat since 2007, while all Pizza Express chicken is halal. Even McDonald's trialled a halal offering, before deciding the changes required to its kitchen procedures would be too great.

Sainsbury's, Tesco and Morrisons, which sell halal ranges at selected stores, and Boots, which sells halal baby food, serve halal meat firstly because people want it: Britain's Muslim population is growing – 3% of the population in the 2001 census, 5% in 2011, and an estimated 8.2%, or around 5.6 million people, by 2030. As KFC puts it: "Feedback from consumers has indicated that there is significant demand for halal food … We've chosen [to serve it] in stores in areas where we expect demand for halal restaurants."

For Pizza Express, as for the major food service companies that supply schools, hospitals and airlines, serving halal chicken across the board simplifies the supply chain and minimises the risk of complaints from customers who may unknowingly eat non-halal meat.

There remains, of course, the risk of complaints from customers who unknowingly eat halal meat – which is why restaurants should make clear, as most do in their windows and on their menus and website, what they are serving. (KFC and Nando's both also say they ensure, when opening a new halal restaurant, that there is a non-halal one nearby.)


Suppose we had 4.8% of the population who were observant Jews who made up 10% to 20% of fast food users. Suppose in some towns the pizza joints only used kosher ingredients for certain products? Would we have rabble rousing papers screaming "Jewish takeover of our way of life"? I wonder if anything like that has ever happened?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 04:08 am
The problem, if there is one, is in Chicken Little's constant phony outrage.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 04:16 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Hawkeye is a doom monger who likes to jump to conclusions based on half truths.


Is that so? I do see a predominance of quotes from sources on the right, and rather black-and-white analyses. Just before Christmas I was at one of our UK offices and I joined their Xmas do at an "all-you-can-eat" Asian fusion restaurant. One of them was a very nice Muslim guy, He had the biggest Haram blow-out you can imagine... Chinese pork ribs, Japanese Tonkatsu breaded pork fillets, Hainan chicken rice, all washed down by three pints of Stella Artois... there are a lot of people like him. He said "I hope my mum doesn't find out". His dad, his wife, his uncle and a bunch of cousins regularly join him on forbidden food and drink expeditions. He went off afterwards to buy a Christmas tree.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 04:18 am
@Setanta,
Meat farming itself should be drawing the flak.

Processes that produce veal and pork in particular.

Cattle get dehorned with bolt cutters, and castrated with a knife.

The method of slaughter is just part of the process.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 04:22 am
@Builder,
Ontario is pretty strict about the conditions in which livestock are kept, and how they are fed and treated before slaughter. There's a big movement here to identify the source of meat you buy in the store. One store goes to far as to put the name and hometown of the farmer and the farmer's husband or wife on the label, with a photograph of them. If one were interested, one could go to visit their farm to see for themselves. There's also a big "one hundred mile diet" movement here, with people urged to buy locally grown products--if possible. No one expects Canadians to give up coffee or bananas.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 04:29 am
i remember staying at a Ramadan Inn one time with a girl, and when it came time to Eid, we went to the restaurant. she had decided on a particular cut of chicken, but when i asked the waiter if it had been killed following strict Islamic traditions he informed me it hadn't, i then admonished my girlfriend to avoid the meal, telling her, "that ain't no Halal back, Girl".
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 04:31 am
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:
"that ain't no Halal back, Girl".


Sorry, I don't get this. Is it some kind of word play joke?

Builder
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 04:31 am
@Setanta,
That all sounds extremely forward-thinking. We had some murkiness surrounding the "free-range" egg market here, with chickens alloted several dozen square centimetres still qualifying as free-range. The serious producers installed web cameras in their yards, so you could see for yourself how their chickens are treated.

It's what people need to realise in a consumer-driven market; we have the power of veto.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 04:36 am
@Builder,
A very good example of that came up in the States about 20 or 30 years ago. People who were upset about the killing of dolphins by tuna fishers began a campaign to get school kids to refuse tuna in any form. They worked through the parents so that they couldn't be accused of any subversive activities. They particularly targeted the Chicken of the Sea brand, then the largest seller, and a heavy television advertiser. It worked a treat. Chicken of the Sea quickly assured that the tuna they purchased was "dolphin-friendly," and popped for third party observers to follow the fishing fleets. When other suppliers saw Chicken of the Sea's market share shoot up, they followed suit.

Maybe it's just because people are lazy. Consumers could, if they bothered, wield enormous power.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 04:41 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
Consumers could, if they bothered, wield enormous power.


We're about to put that to the test with the GMO labelling. I've not seen so many pissed people focussed on the one issue, ever before. Will be one to watch.

And personally speaking, if people aren't concerned with what they are eating, or what they are feeding their kids, that's okay with me as well.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 05:34 am
@contrex,
yes, a reference to a pop song by singer gwen stefani
0 Replies
 
 

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