Modern Nevada Range War

Arizona and Nevada are unique with how much land the Fed controls and leases out. Ranchers almost always overgraze and cause damage. These ranchers feel that the land is theirs because they feel they are th only ones using it.

He's admitting he did wrong, he just feels he shouldn't have to pay for it.

After twenty years of restraint, the government wants its million dollars.

Why should the ranchers have to pay the federal govt to graze their cattle on public land? I'm willing to bet, if you check out the area where the guy is at, he is the only one who uses the land. The federal govt shouldn't be in the land business anyways. From what I understand, the land is the "safe zone" for some sort of land turtle.

They want it for the people and we should get it.

They want what for the people?

That's exactly why he should pay for it. He's taking resources that belong to you and me. What if he took oil or gold off the property. What if you had an apartment that no one rents, should I be allowed to squat your property? You don't use your backyard, I think I'll put in some Herefords.

He's taking resources that belong to you and me? Do you mean things like grass and water? Please.


He isn't so it doesn't matter. His cattle is eating grass and drinking water.


We already have a situation like this in the US, and most of the people like yourself could careless. It's called illegal immigration!

The rent is past due, Baldino, on public land and we the people want these welfare whores to do the self responsible thing and pay their debts. These thieves are stealing from you and me and are damaging the legacy we leave your and my children.

You are being a little dramatic don't you think? Welfare whores? I don't see any notice of him receiving anything from the govt. This guy is taking care of himself with no assistance from the govt. He seems to be making a living and I also notice there is no mention of him not paying his taxes. Why the hostility towards this guy? What has he done to you?

You the people what his head I guess.

Welfare whore is about right. Do you have any idea of the tax money wasted on agricultural industry? What he received had value. If you don't think the grass and water has value take my Herefords out of your backyard and put them into your neighbor's backyard. And turn on his hose-bib. After all, it has no value,right? Where's your vacation home at? I will live there only when you aren't there and for free because I add no cost you wouldn't have pay more for whether I'm sacked in or not, right?

If you choose to be this upset at a US citizen who is using US land, then please have the same level of rage about illegal immigration. Non-citizens coming here and using resources they have no right to use. Take your false rage and apply it somewhere else.

As I said we already have a far more serious problem with illegal immigration. Talk about millions stolen and damage done. This guys owes a million dollars? Yeah that is less than the gas for one of the Obama family trips.

If the kids are finished with my thread -

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/04/11/3425659/armed-right-wing-militias-descend-on-nevada-to-help-rancher-defy-court-order/
“We provide armed response,” according to a Montana militia member named Jim Lordy. Lordy traveled to Nevada in order to support a local rancher for believes that he should not have to follow federal court orders. When he arrived there, he told a local reporter that “[w]e need guns to protect ourselves from the tyrannical government.”
Lordy belongs to a militia group called Operation Mutual Aid, which provides “[d]efense of public and private property, lives, and liberty to exercise God-given rights, seen plainly in the laws of Nature, and codified in the Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights, at the request of such parties in need of such defense,” according to a website associated with the group. Although only three militia members had arrived at the Nevada ranch by late Wednesday, when the latest reports came out, other militia groups reportedly “inundated the [rancher's] household with calls and pledges to muster at the site.”
The Oath Keepers, a right-wing law enforcement organization that warns about the government “disarm[ing] the American people” and “blockad[ing] American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps,” also announced that it will send people to support the defiant rancher.
This conflict arises out of rancher Cliven Bundy’s many years of illegally grazing his cattle on federal lands. In 1998, a federal court ordered Bundy to cease grazing his livestock on an area of federal land known as the Bunkerville Allotment, and required him to pay the federal government $200 per day per head of cattle remaining on federal lands. Around the time it issued this order, the court also commented that “[t]he government has shown commendable restraint in allowing this trespass to continue for so long without impounding Bundy’s livestock.” Fifteen years later, Bundy continued to defy this court order.
Last October, the federal government returned to court and obtained a new order, providing that “Bundy shall remove his livestock from the former Bunkerville Allotment within 45 days of the date hereof, and that the United States is entitled to seize and remove to impound any of Bundy’s cattle that remain in trespass after 45 days of the date hereof.” A third federal court order issued the same year explains that Bundy did not simply refuse to stop trespassing on federal lands — he actually expanded the range of his trespassing. According to the third order, “Bundy’s cattle have moved beyond the boundaries of the Bunkerville Allotment and are now trespassing on a broad swath of additional federal land (the “New Trespass Lands”), including public lands within the Gold Butte area that are administered by the BLM, and National Park System land within the Overton Arm and Gold Butte areas of the Lake Mead National Recreation Area.” The third order also authorizes the federal government to “impound any of Bundy’s cattle that remain in trespass.”
On Saturday of last week, the government hired wranglers to round up Bundy’s livestock. As of Wednesday, they’d impounded a total of 352 cattle. That’s when a tense standoff broke out between a group of Bundy’s supporters and federal rangers armed with stun guns and police dogs. In one video, a ranger tackles Bundy’s sister away from a moving vehicle (she later admitted that she was blocking the path of government trucks shortly before this incident). Another video shows rangers using a stun gun on a protester immediately after he kicks a police dog.

Bundy, for his part, claims that “our Constitution didn’t provide for anything like the federal government owning this land.” He’s wrong. The Constitution provides that “[t]he Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States.”

Federal land managers abruptly ended a roundup of cattle on public land in southern Nevada from a rancher who has refused to recognize their authority, citing a "serious concern" for the safety of employees and the public.

Bureau of Land Management chief Neil Kornze made the announcement Saturday morning at the same time militia members and others gathered near the roundup site to protest the removal of hundreds of Cliven Bundy's cattle.

Some 400 cows were gathered during the roundup that began a week ago, short of the BLM's goal of 900 cows that it says were trespassing on public land.

Bundy didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.

Gov. Brian Sandoval, who had complained about the BLM's handling of the roundup, issued a statement praising the agency for its willingness to listen to the state's concerns.
______________________________________________

If they back down, are they setting the stage for ever growing confrontations with this kind of people? - eb

The fees are a result of an executive order by Ronald Reagan, I just read. That must mean they allowed grazing for free, prior to that.

I think the fees started further back than that.

Taylor Grazing Act

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Reagan's EO simply institute a market based formula for the fee?

You possibly are correct. I will visit the link you posted tomorrow.

Well, yeah, that makes the rancher liable, in my view, and he should pay or lose his herd.

I took this off a friend's facebook post:

"Cliven Bundy has a cattle ranch in Nevada, which has been in his family since the 19th Century. His cattle graze on government land, for which ranchers traditional pay government fees. But Bundy hasn't paid his fees since 1993, after the federal Bureau of Land Management (BLM) took over collection from Clark County, with Bundy 'arguing in court,' per the Los Angeles Times, 'that his Mormon ancestors worked the land long before the BLM was formed, giving him rights that predate federal involvement.' (Supporters argue in a widely-circulated pic that 'Bundy doesn't object to the fees, but does object to giving it to the Federal Government... he, therefore, has offered to pay the state, but they have continuously refused to take his money.')"

Looks like some states may have woken up as a result of all this: Nevada range war: Western states move to take over federal land

I will always support state rights over Federal. Even living in shitty ol' NY where the libs make life barely livable, I still respect the rights of the states over the Fed.

Seems to me that people are sick of federal over reach and the lack of accountability. 20 years ago it would have been the sheriff driving out to Bundy's ranch and having a conversation. Now it's a 200 man strike force armed to the teeth. The militarization of agencies like the BLM are scaring people. WTF does the BLM need a strike force?