Ted Kennedy: Off the deep end ... again

Yep - this is partisan, of course, but I think Ted Kennedy has a pretty damn fine record as a legislator - and has been indefatigable in his attempts to promote a progressive agenda in American politics.

Like the politics, or like them not, isn't this what Kennedy the politician ought to be judged on?

Are YOU drunk?

Fact: He drove his car off a bridge.
Fact: He left the scene.
Fact: He waited ten hours to call for help.

AT THE LEAST, that's leaving the scene of a fatal accident & vehicular homicide. A good DA could probably make murder one stick (depraved indifference to human life).

Also another fact: he always seems like he's plastered.

No legal consequences for murder when the killer is a Beautiful Person?

No.



Fact: I spoke of the accusation of drunk driving.

Opinion: You do not seem to comprehend what you read.



You have a poor understanding of law. "Depraved indifference to human life" is not murder.



This is your opinion.

That may be your opinion. That is not a fact.

Well, if , as you say, he accomplishes all that he does while plastered, how is that a problem? Just imagine how great this country would be if he were always sober, hmm?
Who does President Bush invite to the White House first? He invites Ted Kennedy. Who does his father last year give the award for distinguished public service? Ted Kennedy. Why do you suppose that is?
Answer: Read up. ^^ I've already told you!
Ted Kennedy is a great man. You can continue throwing out his one huge mistake, but that doesn't change the fact that the country is better because of his being here.

As a republican, I will admit that Kennedy has served his country well. He has fought for what he believes is best for the country. And maybe our country is better off because of his service (I guess that may depend on your political idealogy), but I will grant you that point.

But if you are honest, you must grant two other points.
1. America may be better off, but I seriously doubt Mary Jo is.
2. Contrary to what you said in a previous post Suzy, Ted Kennedy never "paid his dues" (as you so nicely put it) for his crime. Unless of course you mean he missed out getting to run for president.

Oh, and I really like your line where you excuse him for taking so long to notify the police because of his dad's ruling the family with an iron hand. Gosh, just makes me all mushy inside. If I ever commit a crime, I really hope you are on the jury. All I will have to do is talk about how I would have turned myself in right away but I was waiting for my dad's permission to do so.

But this is all ancient history. And we should just forget about it. Just like Ted forgot about Mary Jo minutes after driving into the water.

We don't know if Ted kennedy forgot about Mary Jo minutes after driving into the water.

I will agree that he should have done the stand up thing and turned himself in and took the consequences.

Be that as it may, he has done a lot of good for the country and I like him for it.

As for hillary voting for the war and then turning on Bush about it. She was and still is for the war in Iraq. (that is a point where I disagreed with a lot of my democratic leaders) The point is that she disagrees with the way Bush went about it and the lack of planning the same thing that Kerry disagrees with and feels. You may call it flip flopping but I call it using their judgement based on changing circumstances.

I will admit an error. See, I am not so egotistical that I cannot admit when I am wrong. "Forgot" is not the word I should have used. Hopefully, he has never forgotten what happened that night.

I think the proper wording I was looking for is that he "ignored her situation minutes after driving into the water". I think that better expresses what he did than forgetting about her. I'm sure when he got home he remembered to tell dad that she was at the bottom of the lake.

"But if you are honest, you must grant two other points.
1. America may be better off, but I seriously doubt Mary Jo is.
2. Contrary to what you said in a previous post Suzy, Ted Kennedy never "paid his dues" (as you so nicely put it) for his crime. Unless of course you mean he missed out getting to run for president."

1.) I grant that MaryJo is about as better off as the 700+ soldiers who have thus far died for president Bush. (Mistakes were made, hmmm?)
2.) Paid Dues: It depends on what you consider as atonement. We have gotten a lot more out of him as a senator than as an inmate. The progressive (and correct) goal of incarceration is to pay back society and become a better person, both of which he has done, in spades. Unless you're into revenge. That's your trip.
Yes, he got off easy because of money and connections, and it's too bad that that can and does happen all the time, yet he has most certainly atoned for his sin, though living with it everyday.

No, that better expresses what you think he did and what you try to palm off as fact.

My fellow citizens:
I have requested this opportunity to talk to you, the people of Massachusetts, about the tragedy which happened last Friday evening.

This morning I entered a plea of guilty to the charge of leaving the scene of an accident. Prior to my appearance in court it would have been improper for me to comment on these matters, but tonight I am free to tell you what happened and to say what it means to me.

On the weekend of July 18th, I was on Martha's Vinyard Island participating with my nephew, Joe Kennedy, as for 30 years my family has participated in the annual Edgartown Sailing Regatta. Only reasons of health prevented my wife from accompanying me.

On Chappaquiddick Island off Martha's Vinyars, I attended on Friday evening, July 18th, a cookout I had encouraged and helped sponsor for a devoted group of Kennedy campaign secretaries. When I left the party around 11:15 PM, I was accompanied by one of these girls, Miss Mary Jo Kopechne. Mary Jo was one of the most devoted members of the staff of Senator Robert Kennedy. She worked for him for four years and was broken up over his death. For this reason and because she was such a gentle, kind and idealistic person, all of us tried to help her feel that she still had a home with the Kennedy family.

There is no truth whatever to the widely circulated suspicions of immoral conduct that have been leveled at my behavior and hers regarding that evening. There has never been a private relationship between us of any kind. I know of nothing in Mary Jo's conduct on that or any other occasion - and the same is true of the other girls at the party - that would lend any substance to such ugly speculation about their character. Nor was I driving under the influence of liquor.

Little over a mile away the car that I was driving on an unlit road went off a narrow bridge which had no guard rails and was built on a left angle to the road. The car overturned into a deep pond and immediately filled with water. I remember thinking as the cold water rushed in around my head, that I was for certain drowning; then water entered my lungs and I actually felt a sensation of drowning; but somehow I struggled to the surface alive. I made immediate and repeated efforts to save Mary Jo by diving into the strong and murkey current, but succeeded only in increasing my state of utter exhaustion and alarm.

My conduct and conversation during the next several hours, to the extent that I can remember them, made no sense to me at all. Although my doctors inform me that I suffered a cerebral concussion as well as shock, I do not seek to escape responsibility for my actions by placing the blame either on the physical and emotional trauma brought on by the accident, or anyone else. I regard as indefensible the fact that I did not report the accident to the police immediately. Instead of looking directly for a telephone after lying exhausted on the grass for an undetermined time, I walked back to the cottage where the party was being held, requested the help of two friends, Joe Gargan and Paul Markham, and directed them to return immediately to the scene with me ( it then being sometime after midnight ) in order to undertake a new effort to dive down and locate Miss Kopechne. Their strenuous efforts, undertaken at some risk to their own lives, also proved futile.

All kinds of scrambled thoughts - all of them confused, some of them irrational, many of which I cannot recall, and some of which I would not have seriously entertained under normal circumstances - went through my mind during this period. They were reflected in the various inexplicable, inconsistent and inconclusive things I said and did - including such questions as whether the girl might still be alive somewhere out of that imediate area, whether some awful curse actually did hang over all the Kennedys, whether there was some justifiable reason for me to doubt what had happened and to delay my report and whether somehow the awful weight of this incredible incident might in some way pass from my shoulders. I was overcome, I am frank to say, by a jumble of emotions - greif, fear, doubt, exhaustion, panic, confusion and shock.

Instructing Gargan and Markham not to alarm Mary Jo's friends that night, I had them take me to the ferry crossing. The ferry having shut down for the night, I suddenly jumped into the water and impulsively swam across, nearly drowning once again in the effort, returning to my hotel around 2 AM and collapsed in my room. I remember going out at one point and saying something to the room clerk. In the morning with my mind somewhat lucid, I made an effort to call a family legal advisor, Burke Marshall, from a public telephone on the Chappaquiddick side of the ferry, and then belatedly reported the accident to the Martha's Vinyard police.

Today, as mentioned, I felt morally obligated to plead guilty to the charge of leaving the scene of an accident. No words on my part can possibly express the terrible pain and suffering I feel over this tragic accident. The last week has been an agonizing one for me, and for the members of my family; and the greif we feel over the loss of a wonderful friend will remain with us the rest of our lives.

- Kennedy put aside the prepared text. He folded his hands, looked directly into the camera and appeared to continue the speech extemporaneously. However, large cue cards picking up the text of the speech were held up out of camera range. The Senator continued:

These events and the publicity and inuendo and whispers which have surrounded them, and my admission of guilt this morning, raises raises the question in my mind of whether my standing among the people of my state has been so impaired that I should resign my seat in the United States Senate. If at any time the citizens of Massachusetts should lack confidence in their Senator's character or his ability, with or without justification, he could not, in my opinion, adequately perform his duties, and should not continue in office.
The people of this state - the state which sent John Quincy Adams, Danial Webster, Charles Sumner, Henry Cabot Lodge, and John F. Kennedy to the United States Senate - are entitled to representation in that body by men who inspire their utmost confidence. For this reason I would understand full well why some might think it right for me to resign.

This would be a difficult decision to make. It has been seven years since my first election to the Senate. You and I share many memories. Some of them have been glorious, some have been very sad. The opportunity to work with you and serve our state has been much of what has made my life worthwhile.

And so I ask you tonight, the people of Massachusetts, to think this through with me. In facing this decision, I seek your advice and opinion. In making it, I seek your prayers. For this is a decision that I will have finally to make on my own.

It has been written:

"A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis for all human morality. And whatever may be the sacrifices he faces if he follows his conscience - the loss of his friends, his fortune, his contentment, even the esteem of his fellow men - each man must decide for himself the course he will follow. The stories of past courage cannot supply courage itself. For this each man must look into his own soul."

I pray that I can have the courage to make the right decision. Whatever is decided, whatever the future holds for me, I hope I shall be able to put this most recent tragedy behind me and make some future contribution to our state and mankind whether it be in public or private life. Thank you and good night.

"He seems like he's plastered" is fact.

"He's a drunk" is an opinion (though likely an accurate one).

"He's a murderer" is indisputable by any thinking person.

"I think he seems plastered" or something like "He seems like he's plastered to me." could be fact. But in the way you phrase it it's still opinion.

Mine would be:

"He always seems constipated."



Even in the worst case scenarios described here I don't think it would fall under "murder". But maybe someone with more legal knowledge than I can comment on it.

From what I can gather, it was definitely NOT murder. But it might be manslaughter!



http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/m013.htm

http://www3.madd.org/laws/law.cfm?LawID=VEHH

http://www.socialaw.com/Rules/homicide/toc.html

Another link that is pertinent to the definitions:
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Negligent%20manslaughter

And I agree negligent homicide should be the verdict if events were as Kennedy related them. It would be murder if he intentionally left her in the car to die.

Which, uhh, HE DID.

Upon what evidence (that would have a snowball's chance in hell in court) do you make this claim?

I intentionally left the legal issue for someone else to post in hopes that someone else giving you positive confirmation would help bring some legal sense to your position but it doesn't look to be shaping up this way.

Even if he were a total coward and only took care of his own hide that night it is not murder unless he intended to kill her (as opposed to simply not doing what might have saved her).

Did you miss the 'if' there Craven?